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Electric cars

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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The recent government thing about only electric new cars in 40 yrs time got me thinking. Not only of how they will dispose of the lithium batteries, because they have been around for 50 years and nobody yet has come up with a method that works, but the question of second hand cars. By far the greater percentage of cars on our roads are being driven by people who bought second or third or fourth hand. My question is this ..... how do you create a second hand market for electric cars whose only means of propulsion is more or less knackered after 5 years use, and in the region of £6K to replace? Also, does anyone seriously believe that the infrastructure for "refuelling" will be put in place before demand exists? How will they tax electricity? Will everyone have to have a separate metred supply installed, further adding cost to the purchase of the vehicle? Surely if someone is going to put fwd a proposal, the least we should expect is a brief outline of how it will all work? ....... still, quite a few of us won't be bothered by it, will we? ..

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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In the 70s, I lived in Norway, where, because of the cold winters, people had engine warmers which we plugged in overnight to keep the engine oil warm. Then, at work places, you could plug the warmer in for free, as with temperatures in the minus 30s the engine cooled down in minutes. Electricity was cheap there (lots of hydroelectric power) but it would not be impossible to install pay meters for electric cars, surely. According to yesterday's news, the UK is in the forefront of developing new types of batteries. If the need is there, the R and D will happen, won't it?

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By *HIOG  (M)  over a year ago

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The Green Party stated the proposals haven't gone far enough! We would all be driving cabbages if they had any say in it.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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How about an asparabus?

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Would you keep it in a carbage?

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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Technology has moved us on drastically, instead of a man walking in front with a red flag he will then have a solar recharged red LED lamp.

By the way Mr C lithium is classed as a non hazardous waste, and the Li ion cell is fully recyclable. (with most major electric vehicle manufacturers offering an eight year warranty on the power pack)

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*hris51234 By *hris51234   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Will the introduction of all electric vehicles have an adverse knock on effect on employment? will there be less of a need for mechanics as well as at the manufacturing stage?

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By *amekeeper  (M)  over a year ago

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Yet another example of 'magic speak' from our beloved politians.

No calculation of requirements, no planning, no costing, no resources, no infrastructure - just "I say so, so it will be"

Nothing new -

Pooh Bah (Mikado,1885) - "when your Majesty (Gove) says, "Let a thing be done", it's as good as done practically"

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By *eter1953  (M)  over a year ago

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Don't worry, it'll never happen, just another politician keeping himself in the news.

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By  *ebelatsea    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"How about an asparabus?"

GIGGLE

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Most electric cars have a leased battery, it gets replaced as and when necessary in return for small monthly payments.... even then, it's still much cheaper to run than petrol or diesel

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By *.London   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"even then, it's still much cheaper to run than petrol or diesel "

Until the government taxes it to compensate for the loss of tax on petrol and diesel fuels???

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Your rebuttal to a fact is speculation?

Good job

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By *idc69  (M)  over a year ago

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The most important thing to remember about electtic cars is this: you'll still be able to pin a t-girl over the bonnet, rip her panties off and empty your balls up her arse

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Technology has moved us on drastically, instead of a man walking in front with a red flag he will then have a solar recharged red LED lamp.

By the way Mr C lithium is classed as a non hazardous waste, and the Li ion cell is fully recyclable. (with most major electric vehicle manufacturers offering an eight year warranty on the power pack) "

Thank you, I didn't know that, but I'm assuming that is when all lithium is spent? As for knackered batteries, even an 8 year life would render the second/third/fourth hand market virtually non-existant. It'll put a lot of salesmen out of work. Also, of course, given the massive reduction in moving parts, servicing, other than brakes and suspension, would be reduced to a minimum, thereby putting even more people out of work. Am I also to assume that once manufacturing is in full flow, volume will bring the purchase price way down below cars with an internal combustion engine? A more simple construction = cheaper manufacturing costs, surely?

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By *.London   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"The most important thing to remember about electtic cars is this: you'll still be able to pin a t-girl over the bonnet, rip her panties off and empty your balls up her arse "

Are you sure about that?

With no engine (just motors in the wheels) there's no need for there to be a "bonnet"...

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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The leased battery was a first generation idea, mainly Renault, which has fallen by the wayside. I'm reasonably sure no other manufacturer does that now. (let me know if I'm missing one that does).

As regards charging infrastructure the most prominent ev manufacturer, Tesla, are well on the way towards meeting a previously announced target of doubling their charging network. Also the Government's recent Queen's speech unveiled the intent to bring legislation to harmonise every charging point, so any can be used by one single technology, irrespective of which company operateds a particular site.

The recent 'news' about fully EV cars by 2040 is not actually new, it was part of the Paris agreement. We are still going to be a long way behind other countries, with Norway setting a date of 2025, and India a date of 2032.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Not sure where you heard that... Renault were indeed the first to introduce leased batteries, still do today and most other big players have followed suit... including nissan, BMW and tesla

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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It's going to be difficult to predict really isn't it. Cars, as with other commodities, are sometimes sold with minimum profit for the actual item, with car makers reaping pretty high ongoing revenue from peripherals as after market sales. I think an analogy can be drawn from ink jet printers sold cheaply and lots and lots of revenue generated by cartridges afterwards. Anyone who has gulped upon reading the bill for a routine service and a few replacement parts at their local main dealer will know what I mean.

And as for a reduction in jobs in the motor trade, as someone who, in the long ago distant past, was an apprentice motor mechanic the job now is dominated by plugging into a diagnostic computer and just fitting new parts. We are already a long way down that road. There will be only old mechanics that can still do things like renewing a set of points, or rebuilding a wiper motor by going to the stores for parts. Just fit new all the time because everything is sealed for life nowadays.

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By *.London   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Yes. I was researching the cost of electric cars recently and the idea of leased batteries (which cost a significat proportion of my current diesel usage) seriously put me off.

I wonder whether the ban on new diesel and petrol cars by 2040 will extend to buses, lorries, coaches etc? Amusingly, the last time London's Oxford Street met the required air pollution levels was when the busses weren't running due to a strike...

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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There are already over 100 fully electric buses in London. And recently read in Route One (a PSV trade magazine) of further orders by bus operators.

I would anticipate that buses will be one transport sector that would be less problematic to build a charging infrastructure for. With them travelling preset, regular routes it gives a big advantage for induction charging, the technology for which is already proven.

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By *illanihole  (M)  over a year ago

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With the advent of new electric vehicles that do not produce as much noise, one wonders how many more accidents are likely ?

Many people when crossing the roads do not look and sometimes just listen for cars. Also we shall not hear the wonderful exhaust notes of the old V8's or a ferrari's etc .... sad day when that happens.

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By *hris48mt  (M)  over a year ago

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Also, the Greens will have a lot to complain about, when lots of new power stations start to be built. Everybody plugging in a kettle at the end of coranation street will be insignificant compared to several million people coming home from work and plugging in their cars.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I remember that several years ago the prime minister of the day went on the telly saying everyone must consider buying a diesel car, they are more efficient, do more miles to the gallon bla bla bla. Once people had been safely reeled in what happened? tax on diesel went up like hell.

Once people have all got their electric cars the screws will be turned and they will lose any tax incentives and all the rest of it.

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Politicians are no more claivoyant than anyone else. They can only advise with the knowledge they have at any given time and that knowledge comes from the world's scientists and not from the politicians themselves.

Diesel was believed to be preferable but advances in scietific technology has shown this not to be the case. A lot of advances have been made with numerous types of fuel which can be used by buses, some heavy vehicles and ocal athority vehicles which travel within a given area but the difficulties are in finding a technology which is suitable for the general public at reasonable cost and convenience.

The public doesn't help the situation because they say they want clean air bla bla bla but only if someone else has all the inconvenience and expense.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Also, the Greens will have a lot to complain about, when lots of new power stations start to be built. Everybody plugging in a kettle at the end of coranation street will be insignificant compared to several million people coming home from work and plugging in their cars."

Well said there. They are already talking about possible blackouts in the future because of lack of power, so what happens when you are sitting in the dark, no chance of a cuppa and car not charging so no one can get to work next day. Power stations cause a lot of pollution, so producing more power is only going to move the pollution to a different source.

Also will be ok for those lucky enough to have their ownn drive to park on but what about those who have to park on the road, charging points all down the street? Espectially multi car families, o they have several charging points outside blocking the pavements?

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By *poty   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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O I just can't wait to get my Milk Float.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I have solved the problem. Ban the production of ALL cars, irrespective of make or type. Turn their manufacturing capability over to the production of 4 seater golf buggies, then have those scattered all over the world, much the same way that Boris bikes were/are in London. Piece of piss this transport management lark! ...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I don't think anyone has mentioned filling stations, ( petrol & diesel ), yet.

I might be wrong, but, I think a lot of filling stations have closed down, due to lack of profit.

Without petrol & diesel sales, all your motorway service stations, could close.

Loads more people unemployed.

Less work for refineries, too.

More unemployed.

I'm lucky, I gave up my car, about 16 years ago.

I just travel on Diesel buses now. Ha. Ha.

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By *HIOG  (M)  over a year ago

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Filling stations have never made reasonable profits selling any fuels unless they are on a motorway with a very high volume of sales.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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There are 3 "filling stations" within a couple of miles of me, and each one is actually a mini supermarket that happens to sell a few litres of fuel, now and again. Long gone are the two pumps and kiosk type, with a till and a few fags stuck on a shelf.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"I don't think anyone has mentioned filling stations, ( petrol & diesel ), yet.

I might be wrong, but, I think a lot of filling stations have closed down, due to lack of profit.

Without petrol & diesel sales, all your motorway service stations, could close.

Loads more people unemployed.

Less work for refineries, too.

More unemployed.

I'm lucky, I gave up my car, about 16 years ago.

I just travel on Diesel buses now. Ha. Ha."

Unless they improve battery technology dramatically by 2040 then you will need service stations about every 20 miles or so to recharge, a long motorway journey will take an age to complete. You will have to recharge at every service area as if you run out of power the AA or RAC man can't bring you another gallon of fuel in a can lol

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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If diesel and petrol cars really are damaging the planet as they say they are, and by the way I don't know if they do or don't, but if they do?. surely we should get rid of them.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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The planet is already damaged beyond repair, so what's the point of spending billions playing at Canute? However, local air cleanliness is a different matter, and one that we can definitely do something about. I don't think we should confuse the two issues.

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By *arcusUK2  (M)  over a year ago

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So all these new power stations required to charge these batteries are going to be wind powered? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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By *HIOG  (M)  over a year ago

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"The planet is already damaged beyond repair, so what's the point of spending billions playing at Canute? However, local air cleanliness is a different matter, and one that we can definitely do something about. I don't think we should confuse the two issues."

You'll look back in a million years and feel stupid for saying that.

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By *ndyBath  (M)  over a year ago

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My own solution is this.

An electric car is powered by batteries.

Batteries can be charged from an alternator.

The alternator produces power when the car is in motion.

What we need are more efficient alternators so that once the car is in motion the cycle is complete.

The battery powers the motor, the motor drives the car and creates motion, the motion powers the alternator to keep the battery charged.

I believe that this is not possible at the moment because the battery drains quicker than the alternator can recharge it so we need more efficient alternators.

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*hris51234 By *hris51234   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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How about this for a concept and appologies if the idea has already been mentioned, make the batteries so they will fit all makes and models of electric vehicles and make them quick and easy to remove and refit, keep "service/filling stations" but rather than stocking fuel they stock batteries at various levels of charge, when a vehicles battery is running out of charge pull into filling station and simply pay a fee and exchange the worn battery for a charged battery and continue your journey in the time it takes to swap the battery and pay!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"How about this for a concept and appologies if the idea has already been mentioned, make the batteries so they will fit all makes and models of electric vehicles and make them quick and easy to remove and refit, keep "service/filling stations" but rather than stocking fuel they stock batteries at various levels of charge, when a vehicles battery is running out of charge pull into filling station and simply pay a fee and exchange the worn battery for a charged battery and continue your journey in the time it takes to swap the battery and pay!"

I think you're right - but I think this would require a level of co-operation never before considered. The ideal solution would be an automated change where the changeover unit scans the car and then disconnects/refits while you sit comfortably in the car - a bit like a car wash.

This would solve a number of issues, not the least of which would be the Government adding their fee on which is collected by the garage and sent in. The fee can be proportional to the amount of charge in the battery.

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By *ong tall mart   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Meh, petrol engines were crap to start with and they were a novelty for well off folk, electric cars are the same despite people trying to force them on us.

the general public will take them up when the technology matures enough to be useful and is better than what we already have, same as with any new tech, TV's, computers, indoor toilets it's always the same.

Don't forget it took 60 odd years before the internal combustion engine could be classed as reliable, cheap and powerful enough for purpose.

electric cars, be they powered by batteries or some other type of fuel cell will become the norm when they are ready no matter what the greens or the government think.

You think any government that needs to get re-elected will force people out of their cars if an alternative isn't ready?

No of course they wont, they'll keep offering incentives that work for some people, the rest of us will buy them when they are cheaper to buy and run and last at least as long.

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"How about this for a concept and appologies if the idea has already been mentioned, make the batteries so they will fit all makes and models of electric vehicles and make them quick and easy to remove and refit, keep "service/filling stations" but rather than stocking fuel they stock batteries at various levels of charge, when a vehicles battery is running out of charge pull into filling station and simply pay a fee and exchange the worn battery for a charged battery and continue your journey in the time it takes to swap the battery and pay!"

-

It sounds good but the batteries will be far too big and far too heavy to be lifeted about even by a couple of strong guys. Plus they will be probably be fitted centrally beneath the seats.

I don't see too much of a problem as the government have given us plenty of time for the transition to electric.

Electric and hybrid cars are already becoming popular and with hybrids becoming even more popular over the next 20 years there will be plenty of charging points by the time they are also phased out.

A full charge will probably give about 100 miles of driving which is a lot more than most motorists do in a day. A standard charge should take 6 to 8 hours but a fast-charge unit will half that time and intermittent roadside rapid charges if needed can boost the battery up to 80% in 30 minutes.

I read 60% of motorists have off street parking and most can either charge at home or at work. In 20 years there will be plenty of charging points as there are quite a number already.

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By *ong tall mart   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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The more people who drive electric cars the more petrol will be left for petrol heads.

most drivers dont care what makes their car go as long as it works, some of us like race cars or hotrods or classics or whatever, the less people using the oil the better for us lot. :D

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"The more people who drive electric cars the more petrol will be left for petrol heads.

most drivers dont care what makes their car go as long as it works, some of us like race cars or hotrods or classics or whatever, the less people using the oil the better for us lot. :D"

-

You and Jeremy Clarkson ... every cloud has a silver lining lol.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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They aren't forcing anyone out of driving petrol and diesel cars... they are stopping NEW petrol and diesel cars being manufactured after that time.

Classics and sports cars will still be a thing far beyond our life time

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By *ndyBath  (M)  over a year ago

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Of course a decent hybrid may be the easiest solution but as this will involve the use of a petrol or diesel engine I don't know if these are considered ok in the recent scheme.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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A BMW 3 series, converted to run of batteries has just completed a total of 748 miles without recharging driven on public roads at an average speed of 51 MPH. The entire route was video documented throughout*.

The results are in the process of being submitted to the Guinness book of records, and video of it is on youtube.

* Including overnight continuous filming to show nobody charging the car.

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By *ong tall mart   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"A BMW 3 series, converted to run of batteries has just completed a total of 748 miles without recharging driven on public roads at an average speed of 51 MPH. The entire route was video documented throughout*.

The results are in the process of being submitted to the Guinness book of records, and video of it is on youtube.

* Including overnight continuous filming to show nobody charging the car."

doesn't mean its a practical vehicle though, if its packed full of batteries to the detriment of any other consideration its just a stunt. You could fill a car up with fuel tanks and get a couple of thousand mile range but no one is going to want it if it weighs five ton and only seats one dude.

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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It wont impress the BMW drivers and certainly no good to the Audi drivers who seem to think evry journey has to be done at top speed and the get out of my attitude, kids on pushrods can pass them at that spped

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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yeah, it has, was great when he got sacked

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By *.London   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

The battery powers the motor, the motor drives the car and creates motion, the motion powers the alternator to keep the battery charged.

"

Wow! The perpetual motion machine!

A dream of inventors since inventors were invented

Simply not possible, of course, because NOTHING is anywhere approaching 100% efficient!

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By *havedchris  (M)  over a year ago

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Just calm down people, innovation creates jobs and opportunities. embrace this new world and get informed.

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*inkerman By *inkerman  (M)  over a year ago

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Remember that Amazon paid Messrs Clarkson, May & Hammond to make an updated Top gear?

Well they did and called it Grand Tour.

On one episode Clarkson was his usual obnoxious self and challenged May to a competition.

Clarkson had bought a top end VW golf and May had bought a BMW i3.

They had the usual mucking around a racetrack and a drag race, then the serious stuff, a race from inner London to Penzance.

May as well and truly stuffed, on the way down, of the 6 charging points that were programmed into the cars database, half weren't working one was faulty and couldn't deliver the quick charge needed and the remainder were so far apart that May had to use the backup petrol engine which was an optional extra to get to the final working charger to wait a further hour to get enough power to make the final leg of the journey. He arrived in Penzance 2 hours after Clarkson. If the best they can manage is 50% of charging points being operational, and it's not like they've a deadline of X number of installations per week to complete they might as well put the deadline back another 10 years before they ban petrol and diesel engines.

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By *arcusUK2  (M)  over a year ago

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"

The battery powers the motor, the motor drives the car and creates motion, the motion powers the alternator to keep the battery charged.

Wow! The perpetual motion machine!

A dream of inventors since inventors were invented

Simply not possible, of course, because NOTHING is anywhere approaching 100% efficient!"

Not true. Look at ground-source and air-source heat pumps....

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Bearing in mind it is calculated we would need and additional 16 new power stations on top of what we have (and ignoring life cycle replacement of existing aging ones), how's that going to work with wind and solar ?????

I'm a fan of nuclear power myself and it is the only way but with the various protest and objections process, we'll only have Hinkley and Sizewell if we're lucky.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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No! No! No! it does not need 16 new power stations to meet the demand. You are just believing and repeating the bullshit that someone is just talking out of their arse.

Stop swallowing the line fed by people with a vested interest in maintaining the use of fossil fuels, open up your brain, find some impartial information, read it and make up your own mind based on the evidence, not on propaganda based on the profit margins of the fossil fuel brigade.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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The new technology of electric vehicles and renewable energy will not go away. Governments will end up supporting it, if only for one reason, money.

When Michael Faraday was explaining his experiments with electromagnetism to the then Prime Minister Gladstone and several others this important new discovery in science Gladstone’s only commentary was ‘but, after all, what use is it?” ‘Why, sir,’ replied Faraday, ‘there is every probability that you will soon be able to tax it!’”

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Remember that Amazon paid Messrs Clarkson, May & Hammond to make an updated Top gear?

Well they did and called it Grand Tour.

On one episode Clarkson was his usual obnoxious self and challenged May to a competition.

Clarkson had bought a top end VW golf and May had bought a BMW i3.

They had the usual mucking around a racetrack and a drag race, then the serious stuff, a race from inner London to Penzance.

May as well and truly stuffed, on the way down, of the 6 charging points that were programmed into the cars database, half weren't working one was faulty and couldn't deliver the quick charge needed and the remainder were so far apart that May had to use the backup petrol engine which was an optional extra to get to the final working charger to wait a further hour to get enough power to make the final leg of the journey. He arrived in Penzance 2 hours after Clarkson. If the best they can manage is 50% of charging points being operational, and it's not like they've a deadline of X number of installations per week to complete they might as well put the deadline back another 10 years before they ban petrol and diesel engines."

On the other hand, Clarkson chose an i8 over an M3, so even he is starting to see possibilities.

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By *pheliaBalls  (M)  over a year ago

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"The recent government thing about only electric new cars in 40 yrs time got me thinking. Not only of how they will dispose of the lithium batteries, because they have been around for 50 years and nobody yet has come up with a method that works, but the question of second hand cars. By far the greater percentage of cars on our roads are being driven by people who bought second or third or fourth hand. My question is this ..... how do you create a second hand market for electric cars whose only means of propulsion is more or less knackered after 5 years use, and in the region of £6K to replace? Also, does anyone seriously believe that the infrastructure for "refuelling" will be put in place before demand exists? How will they tax electricity? Will everyone have to have a separate metred supply installed, further adding cost to the purchase of the vehicle? Surely if someone is going to put fwd a proposal, the least we should expect is a brief outline of how it will all work? ....... still, quite a few of us won't be bothered by it, will we? .. "

I think the plan for all electric cars in 40 years time is a bit optimistic.

I remember that TV was going to kill the film industry and books were going to be replaced by Kindle tablets.

A better way forward for the car industry would be to grow our own fuel, like with vegetable oil that runs diesel engines.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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We don't have the space to grow the qty we would need, and with only one crop per year, we'd soon be on our uppers.

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By *ong tall mart   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

The battery powers the motor, the motor drives the car and creates motion, the motion powers the alternator to keep the battery charged.

Wow! The perpetual motion machine!

A dream of inventors since inventors were invented

Simply not possible, of course, because NOTHING is anywhere approaching 100% efficient!

Not true. Look at ground-source and air-source heat pumps...."

Any pump, by its very definition cannot be 100% efficient, it takes energy to move something, be that a solid, a gas or a liquid, even if that something is being balanced by another something going the other way there will still be frictional losses within that something as it moves and against whatever it is moving through.

The most efficient way humans have come up with so far to generate electricity is hydro power, the biggest dams can run at up to 95% energy conversion, mainly because they produce almost no waste heat.

Pretty much everything else is at less than 50%, coal power plants are often around 30% efficient 2/3 of the energy produced burning it is lost as heat.

Most solar panels are about 15%-20% efficient although there are prototypes approaching 50% these days and solar (or wind/wave power) being inefficient isn't a massive problem.

Generally it just means you need a more space to make them bigger so you make up for the poor conversion rate, they are not producing any harmful by products and the energy they fail to convert to electricity basically just passes them by as it would have done had they not been there.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"With the advent of new electric vehicles that do not produce as much noise, one wonders how many more accidents are likely ?

Many people when crossing the roads do not look and sometimes just listen for cars. Also we shall not hear the wonderful exhaust notes of the old V8's or a ferrari's etc .... sad day when that happens."

I couldn`t agree more

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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I take it from reading the posts here non of you are particularly into tech. The up coming decade is going to see a massive change in just about everything. Tech is not developing in a nice linear way but every year it rapidly gains momentum. The expected time line for electric cars to be fully competitive with fossil fuel cars is in around 5 years. Range and price are rapidly getting to a point were its a no brainer on which to buy. But this is by no means the complete story, at around this point self driving car tech will be vastly better than human driving abilities. Just this week the first taxies with out a driver are starting in the USA. Put these to techs together and actual ownership of a car becomes a real stupid and expensive idea. Rather car manufacturers or the ones that will survive will be more mobility companies still owning the vehicle's and charging per kilometre. This will change society in so many ways and save many life's. Really get away from newspaper headlines and do some research on whats going to happen in the on coming couple of decades, the change we have seen in our lifes is nothing compared to the very near future.

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By *ickyboy  (M)  over a year ago

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well indeed but my question is will there be anything left of the world to put these wonderfull things on as it seems to me we have well and truly fucked things up weather wise and it will not get better and we are doing a dam good job of ruining everything else too .the biggest threat to the world is not cars. its us!

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By *ickyboy  (M)  over a year ago

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well indeed but my question is will there be anything left of the world to put these wonderfull things on as it seems to me we have well and truly fucked things up weather wise and it will not get better and we are doing a dam good job of ruining everything else too .the biggest threat to the world is not cars. its us!

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By *rappling  (M)  over a year ago

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"well indeed but my question is will there be anything left of the world to put these wonderfull things on as it seems to me we have well and truly fucked things up weather wise and it will not get better and we are doing a dam good job of ruining everything else too .the biggest threat to the world is not cars. its us!"

So you want to get rid of people and keep the cars?

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By *ock4studs  (M)  over a year ago

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I live in a mid terrace house in the middle of a block.I never get chance to park in front of my home and also if I could it would mean a charging cable across the path which would be classed as unsafe. Along side the fact that anyone could potentially steal my electric to charge their own car.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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"well indeed but my question is will there be anything left of the world to put these wonderfull things on as it seems to me we have well and truly fucked things up weather wise and it will not get better and we are doing a dam good job of ruining everything else too .the biggest threat to the world is not cars. its us!"

Again tech is coming to the rescue. Renewable energy sources are rapidly reducing in cost per watt, large scale solar plants are now being built with a feed in tariff of around 3us cent per Kw hour. That's less than 50% of any fossil fuel I think. We have already tied in quite a bit of climate change but look how quickly coal suddenly lost it's place. Peak oil maybe only 5 years away. The real problem is society and how we adapt to the change that will happen.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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I'm afraid we are pissing into the wind and hoping to stay dry hoping that dinosaurs will see the future and adapt. Those with foresight will grasp the realities and embrace them.

Confucius probably didn't say (but should have done) Those who sense the wind of change should build a windmill, not a windbreak.

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"I'm afraid we are pissing into the wind and hoping to stay dry hoping that dinosaurs will see the future and adapt. Those with foresight will grasp the realities and embrace them.

Confucius probably didn't say (but should have done) Those who sense the wind of change should build a windmill, not a windbreak."

Maybe Confucius wasn’t as clever as you lol. Good saying whoever thought of it and I agree with the sentiments.

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*ommygun By *ommygun  (M)  over a year ago

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Hi Guys, Just to say, There Ain't gonna be enough Lithium on this planet for us ALL to have Li-ion Battery-driven cars...So Forget that one ! We STILL need a Diesel motor for all our commercial "Working" Vehicles, ie needing Hi-Torque & distance req. The latest are using the"Ad-Blue" tech' which considerably reduces the NoX output (See rix.co) Its basically Piss NOW, Modern, Smaller Petrol (Gasoline) engines are now excellent(100BHP)& V.efficient, See Fords 1Lt-fiesta.. We shouldn't be worrying ourselves unduly here, Trust me..

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*ommygun By *ommygun  (M)  over a year ago

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*** Ohhhh ... Forgot to say... (To those who Can)

Use Yr Pension-Pots to Buy SHELL'B' Shares They are Yielding 6% + After Tax

We still have vast amounts of Oil to use-up!

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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No thanks I won't trust you.

The percentage of actual lithium in a Li Ion cell is approximately 2%, and recyclable anyway. But that detracts from the point that the next generation of batteries will not be lithium based. New technology for batteries is already here (Graphene based for one) and will supersede lithium cells.

Your argument also ignores the inescapable fact that the oil reserves of the planet are finite.

As for diesel commercial working vehicles there are already a large number of electric buses working efficiently in many major cities of the world, including London.

For commercial transport (wagons) see this: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/nov/17/elon-musk-tesla-electric-truck-sports-car-surprise

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I don't think its any coincidence that the government is paying money for the advancement of Smart Metering for us all as this will pave the way for a wholesale change in the way we pay for and use energy. And it won't be cheaper.

The government is thinking the future is electric cars, it can't be just about air pollution. The reserves of fossil fuel are going to diminish. The majority of electric is produced by fossil fuel. I can't see this adding up without at least considering Hydrogen Fuel Cells, making them safer and more economical to use.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I think it's amazing that the real "gold rush" nowadays is the search for efficient battery technology; it's already started with many Universities already looking at finding the newest tech and substance.

The sooner we get away from fossil fuels, the better - it's our grandchildren's only chance at survival

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By *ndyBath  (M)  over a year ago

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I still wonder with the current choice of electric cars and the time it takes to charge them, how much does it cost to charge in comparison to petrol or diesel?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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The biggest issue is how electric cars will affect the poorest of our population.

Think about it; if electric cars take over, they will need electricity to charge them, and that electricity has to come from somewhere (ignoring the fact that we have next to no spare capacity in our generation infrastructure).

The Government derives around £28 billion each year from petrol and diesel - it will not be willing to "lose" all that delicious revenue, and yet electric vehicles are going to be using electricity through the home supply to the detriment of using fossil fuels.

The solution? Increase the price of electricity to offset the loss in fossil fuel revenue.

Oops

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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"The biggest issue is how electric cars will affect the poorest of our population.

Think about it; if electric cars take over, they will need electricity to charge them, and that electricity has to come from somewhere (ignoring the fact that we have next to no spare capacity in our generation infrastructure).

The Government derives around £28 billion each year from petrol and diesel - it will not be willing to "lose" all that delicious revenue, and yet electric vehicles are going to be using electricity through the home supply to the detriment of using fossil fuels.

The solution? Increase the price of electricity to offset the loss in fossil fuel revenue.

Oops"

The vast majority of electric vehicles will be recharged during off peak times, through the night. It is a fact that the grid is massively underused during those hours, and balancing out the usage over the 24 hours of a day is much more efficient.

The challenge, which is already on the way towards being met, is to increase the amount of storage capacity for the electricity produced from sun, wind and hydro. Building this will be highly beneficial to the National Grid, and that is the established position of the people actually operating the grid.

This year saw the highest ever amount of days where the electricity demands of the country were met substantially from renewable sources.

Also consider that the electricity demands to run an oil and petrol refinery is approximately the same as is needed to run a city the size of Coventry. Currently a lot of that electricity is produced by coal or gas. So we are burning vast amounts of fossil fuels in order to produce a different fossil fuel. If that aspect makes some sense to anyone then I find myself puzzled by their logic processes.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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some good information I hadn't considered; thank you.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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For an example you should look at the South Australian government deal made with Tesla to build the world's largest lithium ion battery storage facility. They promised if it wasn't built within 100 days of signing the contract it would be provided free to Australia. It was by the way.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/07/tesla-to-build-worlds-biggest-lithium-ion-battery-in-south-australia

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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I think there is still some work to be done, but by others doing parts of the scheme, the Tesla bit is sorted.

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Bring back the horse and carriage. Easy to refuel and the only waste being good for agriculture.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Bring back the horse and carriage. Easy to refuel and the only waste being good for agriculture."

and there would be a great excuse for a no show - "I 'ad to eat the 'orse"

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Transport for London has buses running on a mixed diesel/biofuel containing coffee grounds. Good in a way but the buses will be full of beardie hipsters on laptops.

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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I'm not sure it 'contains' coffee grounds; rather is made from them

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Some oil derivative of the grounds. Not enough to make the streets smell of coffee, though

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By *1701   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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I love electric cars.

I mean electricity just magically appears from the plug socket.

There's no power station connected to the socket via a copper cable burning fossil fuels it just magically appears.

As for the guy with the advancements in the last 40 years.

Not every leap forward us a good idea.

If there is a GOD he must be thinking about populating a new planet as this one is full!

Mostly of morons who don't look beyond their plug socket

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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Along with plenty of the same who don't look at the changes that are taking place regarding how we currently generate our electricity.

And how the percentage for generation by renewables is increasing annually, and the percentage generated by fossil fuels is decreasing annually.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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You will find the morons that have electric cars are far more aware of how electricity is produced and environmental impacts of traditional verse eclectic cars. What was really amusing about two articles in the Mirror and FT recently that were saying fossil fuelled cars are environmentally better than electric was in fact it showed completely the opposite. They took date from an MIT study then used only exhaust emissions from a small car then compared it with all emissions related to using an electric car basing this study in a part of the USA that gets the highest percentage of it electricity from dirty coal. So worse case scenario for electric to best for conventional and electric still came out best.

Now take a look at the change that is happening in electricity production, when do you think solar is going to begin to compete on price with fossil fuel? It's already happened, then comes the oh but what about storage? Take a look at the trend price of batteries, fossil fuel is a dead man walking.

So please don't call people morons before you look in to the facts. Whats going to happen in the next ten years is going to scare the hell out of people like you.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"You will find the morons that have electric cars are far more aware of how electricity is produced and environmental impacts of traditional verse eclectic cars. What was really amusing about two articles in the Mirror and FT recently that were saying fossil fuelled cars are environmentally better than electric was in fact it showed completely the opposite. They took date from an MIT study then used only exhaust emissions from a small car then compared it with all emissions related to using an electric car basing this study in a part of the USA that gets the highest percentage of it electricity from dirty coal. So worse case scenario for electric to best for conventional and electric still came out best.

Now take a look at the change that is happening in electricity production, when do you think solar is going to begin to compete on price with fossil fuel? It's already happened, then comes the oh but what about storage? Take a look at the trend price of batteries, fossil fuel is a dead man walking.

So please don't call people morons before you look in to the facts. Whats going to happen in the next ten years is going to scare the hell out of people like you."

Well, if you know whats going to happen in the next ten years, is there any reason why you can't share that knowledge with us? Maybe you'll convert a few of us? ..

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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"You will find the morons that have electric cars are far more aware of how electricity is produced and environmental impacts of traditional verse eclectic cars. What was really amusing about two articles in the Mirror and FT recently that were saying fossil fuelled cars are environmentally better than electric was in fact it showed completely the opposite. They took date from an MIT study then used only exhaust emissions from a small car then compared it with all emissions related to using an electric car basing this study in a part of the USA that gets the highest percentage of it electricity from dirty coal. So worse case scenario for electric to best for conventional and electric still came out best.

Now take a look at the change that is happening in electricity production, when do you think solar is going to begin to compete on price with fossil fuel? It's already happened, then comes the oh but what about storage? Take a look at the trend price of batteries, fossil fuel is a dead man walking.

So please don't call people morons before you look in to the facts. Whats going to happen in the next ten years is going to scare the hell out of people like you.

Well, if you know whats going to happen in the next ten years, is there any reason why you can't share that knowledge with us? Maybe you'll convert a few of us? .. "

You need to check out the Singularity University, they are the people that have changed the world recently and are really going to change things. But basically costs come down on just about everything, masses of companies go bust that didn't keep up, driverless cars, cheap renewable energy and so on. This shags the present model of capitalism, if we don't adapt with the change we will be left behind and the change will occur extremely quickly.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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With electric cars, there is one thing everyone is over looking, Electric is not free, everyone will have to pay to charge their car, So who will be getting a nice litle windfall from this? No matter how its generated, at the point of supply users will have to pay, so, imagine your plugging your car in each night, for 8 hours, say 5 times a week thats going to add how much to the energy suppliers profits can you afford to see an extra say £100 per month on your electric bills? So is this in part going to create even more problems for families who are already struggling?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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As it stands right now, charging an electric car at a service station etc can indeed be free

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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"With electric cars, there is one thing everyone is over looking, Electric is not free, everyone will have to pay to charge their car, So who will be getting a nice litle windfall from this? No matter how its generated, at the point of supply users will have to pay, so, imagine your plugging your car in each night, for 8 hours, say 5 times a week thats going to add how much to the energy suppliers profits can you afford to see an extra say £100 per month on your electric bills? So is this in part going to create even more problems for families who are already struggling?"

I don't think anyone is over looking cost of electricity. If you look at a pounds worth of electricity compared to fossil fuel that pound will take you a lot further. The life time cost of ownership of fossil V's electric is just about coming even. Those early up takers of electric vehicles are doing so because they are willing to spend the extra cash to help the world. It's basic economics with the swanson law (really an observation), the more you build a units price drops a predictable amount. Give present trends five years and electric cars save a huge amount. But at around the five year mark automatous vehicles should come in, in a major way making ownership of a car pointless. This will save people on average about 90% on owning a car. When overall reduction in cost is taken into account the effect is really amazing. This will help struggling families, although there is plenty of wealth about today that no one should have to struggle.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Its not electric cars that will consume the power, it is Bitcoin mining. There are now plants using mainframe computers that consume as much power as a city doing nothing but mining. A couple of friends bought a mainframe to do it and their bills have gone through the roof.

Oddly, despite all the fake alarmist tales from the utility companies, and despite this huge increase in demand, there hasn't been a single power cut.

Electric cars will affect employment in truck driving, service stations, caravan sales, driving holidays, tourism, shops, garages, car sales, the list is endless. All so that we can drive 100 miles between 3 hour charges? It's not going to happen.

If the petrol stations close down, all internal combustion engined cars won't be able to get fuel at all.

Imagine a 300 mile drive to the coast for a 2,000 mile driving holiday in France or Spain,it will be impossible to do.

There isn't enough Lithium in China to build batteries for the volume of cars that would be required.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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Bitcoin mining is a different game. You are correct in saying how much electric cars will affect employment but also society. Cutting many of those 1.3 million deaths a year on the road, cutting pollution, realising a staggering amount of money spent on transportation to be spent hopefully on more fun things and so on. Even affects on things life fox population as vehicles are their major cause of death.

But 100 mile range and 3 hr charge, with no chargers available. You need to look at the trends in these, it's changing rapidly.

As for theres not enough lithium, that is only true in the sense of a bottle neck is the mining of this element. As has always been the case in the mining world price goes up all of a sudden no mines are created and price drops. Lithium is only about 3% of the battery. Even if all the lithium in the world magically disappeared we can build batteries from other materials.

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By *1701   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Wow once again I love this

Have you read the blah blah blah

No I have not read any news paper it's a point of fact.

The electricity is still made via fossil fuel.

DDT WAS A MAJOR BREAK THROUGH

Now banned the list is endless

My work colleague made a good point.

For all you techies

Why don't we have driverless trains?

Anyway I love you all

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"You will find the morons that have electric cars are far more aware of how electricity is produced and environmental impacts of traditional verse eclectic cars. What was really amusing about two articles in the Mirror and FT recently that were saying fossil fuelled cars are environmentally better than electric was in fact it showed completely the opposite. They took date from an MIT study then used only exhaust emissions from a small car then compared it with all emissions related to using an electric car basing this study in a part of the USA that gets the highest percentage of it electricity from dirty coal. So worse case scenario for electric to best for conventional and electric still came out best.

Now take a look at the change that is happening in electricity production, when do you think solar is going to begin to compete on price with fossil fuel? It's already happened, then comes the oh but what about storage? Take a look at the trend price of batteries, fossil fuel is a dead man walking.

So please don't call people morons before you look in to the facts. Whats going to happen in the next ten years is going to scare the hell out of people like you.

Well, if you know whats going to happen in the next ten years, is there any reason why you can't share that knowledge with us? Maybe you'll convert a few of us? ..

You need to check out the Singularity University, they are the people that have changed the world recently and are really going to change things. But basically costs come down on just about everything, masses of companies go bust that didn't keep up, driverless cars, cheap renewable energy and so on. This shags the present model of capitalism, if we don't adapt with the change we will be left behind and the change will occur extremely quickly."

Our mission is to educate, inspire, and empower leaders to apply exponential technologies to address humanity's grand challenges.

Singularity University is a global community using exponential technologies to tackle the world’s biggest challenges. Our learning and innovation platform empowers individuals and organizations with the mindset, skillset, and network to build breakthrough solutions that leverage emerging technologies like artificial intelligence, robotics, and digital biology. With our community of entrepreneurs, corporations, development organizations, governments, investors, and academic institutions, we have the necessary ingredients to create a more abundant future for all.

We serve these audiences with a range of products to help them understand rapidly accelerating technologies and how to apply them to positively impact billions of people. Our products include custom educational experiences that transform leaders, stunning conferences that inspire and prompt action, and innovative labs that incubate and accelerate corporate innovation and social impact projects.

The above was a cut and paste from their website .... now, I'm an intelligent man who has a PhD in Contract Law, successfully argued at Harvard Business School ..... BUT .... I don't have a clue what that load of bollocks means, does anyone else??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"With electric cars, there is one thing everyone is over looking, Electric is not free, everyone will have to pay to charge their car, So who will be getting a nice litle windfall from this? No matter how its generated, at the point of supply users will have to pay, so, imagine your plugging your car in each night, for 8 hours, say 5 times a week thats going to add how much to the energy suppliers profits can you afford to see an extra say £100 per month on your electric bills? So is this in part going to create even more problems for families who are already struggling?"

Erm but they won't have to buy petrol anymore, hence saving then a similar amount probably.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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"With electric cars, there is one thing everyone is over looking, Electric is not free, everyone will have to pay to charge their car, So who will be getting a nice litle windfall from this? No matter how its generated, at the point of supply users will have to pay, so, imagine your plugging your car in each night, for 8 hours, say 5 times a week thats going to add how much to the energy suppliers profits can you afford to see an extra say £100 per month on your electric bills? So is this in part going to create even more problems for families who are already struggling?

Erm but they won't have to buy petrol anymore, hence saving then a similar amount probably."

You are missing one point, people dont have to buy petrol every other day,i'm assuming you will have to charge your electric car on a regular basis, to keep the battery charged, so its an expence some people will struggle to meet, im expecting some will say, well they dont have to have a car, except that in many cases, there is no option as public transport may not be prectical .or even go to the places you need to go.

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Mr C - let me translate (although you do not of course actually require such)

'We are two guys and a suit engaged in flogging nothing tangible or indeed of any intellectual value merely a load of flim flam horseshit.'

The wording is industry standard.

Trouble with electricity is you cant store the stuff in any useful strategic quantity. The UK leads the world in offshore renewables which is great, of course. However if the wind does not blow then no juice is produced for your car. We are, gentlemen, returning to the age of sail! Those Top Gear boat conversion jobs were more prescient than they realised.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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Really seems very straight forward to me, watch the videos that may help.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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"Mr C - let me translate (although you do not of course actually require such)

'We are two guys and a suit engaged in flogging nothing tangible or indeed of any intellectual value merely a load of flim flam horseshit.'

The wording is industry standard.

Trouble with electricity is you cant store the stuff in any useful strategic quantity. The UK leads the world in offshore renewables which is great, of course. However if the wind does not blow then no juice is produced for your car. We are, gentlemen, returning to the age of sail! Those Top Gear boat conversion jobs were more prescient than they realised. "

Flim flam horseshit, these two people have changed our world already, google and see.

Just wait and see how our energy supply changes, renewables are kicking the crap out of fossil fuels. You really need to look at the trends in tech, change is coming. As we resist in certain western countries others take the prize.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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Just a few observations...

The U.K is an island, and we have a number of tidal generating plants already in operation. (around Orkney and just off the Mersey estuary are just two that come to mind straight away)

An electric car is agnostic, it doesn't care where the electricity is generated from.

This year the percentage of renewable versus fossil generated tipped over 50% more often than any previous year, with the cost of electricity actually going negative a couple of times. And renewable plus low carbon sources hitting 70% - a figure confirmed by the National Grid.

Even the major oil companies are seeing there is money in EV, with Shell installing the first 25 recharging points on forecourts, all in London at present, over the next six to nine months.

Nissan is the first worldwide manufacturer to launch a second generation of an electric model with the 2018 Leaf that went on sale a month or two back. (over 300,000 of the Leaf 1 were sold since launch)

Sales of electric cars in Norway are currently 47% of all new vehicles, with diesel going from the high 70% figure down to the low 20% figure over the same period. Sadly Norway has continued to export the oil it drills but the revenue goes towards changing their own grid to a much cleaner system, so a NIMBY attitude from them.

TFL are continually increasing the number of electric buses in London, and there are well over 100 electric taxis on London streets (that may be a lot higher now because the figure of 100 is about a year old)

Anyone wanting to know from a genuine desire to understand what is happening should subscribe and watch Fully Charged on YouTube. A channel that keeps abreast of all the new things happening in electric transport, presented by Johnny Smith (Fifth Gear) and Robert Llewellyn (Red Dwarf) The fossils among us probably won't.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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The best way we could store any excess electricity from wind power would be either by massive gravitational weight systems or the tried and tested artificial high altitude lakes.Tidal power would produce great yields but it's initial costs might cripple most countries economies.On a small scale the island of La Palma in the canaries is said to be self sufficient in electricity with wind power and the excess being pumped back to a high altitude lake(HYDRO)

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Geg1234 will check them out . Had never heard of them just looked at the quote in the post. Nevertheless the wording is still industry standard horseshit. It’s the sort of language

used to sell cluster munitions etc without implying anything unpleasant might happen as a result. They need a new copy writer. Modesty forbids of course but…

It is sometimes difficult to convey stuff through the medium of whimsy on here so:

Offshore windfarm sail rotation produces electricity (more efficient than on land). Electricity goes into national grid. Electricity comes out of grid into car etc. Car is indirectly wind powered. Latter day age of sail. Jolly good idea. I'm all for it.

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By *1701   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Oh dear what's happened to driverless lorries?

Fossils eh, noticed it's gone quiet since it crashed and killed someone.

Teething problems it may be called.

So we get driverless cars so taxis disappear where are all the drivers going to work?

At the battery factory I fear not.

The people pushing this tech don't care who gets left behind it's a great idea.

Will they use sail boats to deliver their wares?

No as that's not a good idea.

We will just see new Billionaires but a lot of people will not have a job.

Will they share the wealth?..

REALLY.

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By *avid93111  (M)  over a year ago

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First thing ignore the greens, just a collection of silly people, they never think. Their silly ideas through,

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By *awtyCawty  (M)  over a year ago

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Yet another stupid idea from the green brigade numpties. They never think anything through. Like the log burners that are now poisoning our atmosphere or the electric cars that will require stupid amounts of electricity and hence many many more power stations to keep them running.

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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The savings in harmful emmissions from electric cars are outweighed by the increase in emmissions from the power stations.

We should have pedal cars. They could charge the battery and reduce obesity

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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Oh dear, some ones not keeping up with the times.

Yes an accident happened (although part of the cars program was disabled and the driver was on the phone)

Last year bout 1.3 million people were killed on the roads, Ai is better already than people and is improving at an amazing rate.

Yes taxi's as such will go and if that means lifes are saved then good. As well as being cheaper than owning a car.

The whole world is changing and our society isn't, capitalism as present will have to evolve.

Sail boats, didn't you see the Maersk ship experiment?

No most billionaires love to horde their wealth,like most people. It's time we changed things. Far better a society evolves or it will end in a revolution, which isn't good. But unfortunately people hold on to the past.

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By *annyboy87  (M)  over a year ago

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"Oh dear, some ones not keeping up with the times.

Yes an accident happened (although part of the cars program was disabled and the driver was on the phone)

Last year bout 1.3 million people were killed on the roads, Ai is better already than people and is improving at an amazing rate.

Yes taxi's as such will go and if that means lifes are saved then good. As well as being cheaper than owning a car.

The whole world is changing and our society isn't, capitalism as present will have to evolve.

Sail boats, didn't you see the Maersk ship experiment?

No most billionaires love to horde their wealth,like most people. It's time we changed things. Far better a society evolves or it will end in a revolution, which isn't good. But unfortunately people hold on to the past. "

totally agree with you

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Yet another stupid idea from the green brigade numpties. They never think anything through. Like the log burners that are now poisoning our atmosphere or the electric cars that will require stupid amounts of electricity and hence many many more power stations to keep them running. "

Horses; use them for transport, their dung for vegetables and then eat them. Excellent.

Oh, we’ve been there already? Oops

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By *pheliaBalls  (M)  over a year ago

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Can someone tell me what is so bad about diesel?

You get more miles to the gallons with diesel.

You can actually "grow" diesel [oil from seeds like sunflowers or hemp or old chip fat - the Three Stooges did this on Top Gear]

If a vehicle is fitted with a "Diesel exhaust fluid" system the Nitrous Oxide is turned to nitrogen and water and harmlessly emitted through the exhaust.

That only leave soot - which can be removed using a vortex collector.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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There was something on the radio this morning about using all the plastic wasted to fuel hydrogen propelled cars. Only caught the tail end of the article but sounds a wonderful idea.

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By *eg1234  (M)  over a year ago

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The problem with diesels are they do emit harmful particles. Dyson invented a method to stop these but it was to expensive. And of course they emit CO2.

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*ommygun By *ommygun  (M)  over a year ago

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Yes, a Diesel engine is certainly more efficient than its gasoline equivalent & now we can "Add-Blu" (Urea) which will clean it up even more...

Don't forget guys...the real cost of a Ltr is 35p,

Its our Governments who make prices unrealistically high here...So WHAT will charging cost once we ALL start plugging in? aye !!!

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