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4m on NHS waiting lists!

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By *wdChris  (M) 5 days ago

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New figures show that 4m patients are now waiting for NHS operations - the highest level since records began.

The millionare Conservatives shud be utterly ashamed of these numbers.

Politicans wud rather waste billions on foreign aid thats not needed, and nuclear weapons which are no good to anyone,rather than spend our own money on our own people.

Idiotic Labour & the millionare Conservatives shud be thoroughly ashamed.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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why don't you actually speak to someone in Richmond House they might just give you the correct figures rather than sticking your finger in the air waiting for air!!!!

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By *aked4u2   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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4 million sounds a rather high figure, if that's true why have we not seen front page headlines and news reports on television ?

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By *wdChris  (M) 5 days ago

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The 4m figures are in all the newspapers.

The millionare Conservatives have a record to be ashamed of.

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By *aked4u2   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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So what are the total number of NHS beds throughout the UK Hospitals ?

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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Do you know what I am bloody pleased I am a millionaire Conservative and even more pleased that its more than £2 million…….

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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Well if its in all the papers it must be true then! ive an idea why dont we pack all those on the waiting list off to Australia for no logical reason then blame it on the ridiculous EU as everything that goes wrong is their fault anyway......"innit"

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By *ewcocol  (M) 5 days ago

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The waiting list has grown because the NHS is devoting a lot of resources to find the common sense gene. The control group they are using, UKIP supporters, is proving to have no evidence of it existing, and the dilemma is what to do with all the failed experiments. The suggestion being discussed presently is whether to send them all to Australia or some impoverished African nation.

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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"The waiting list has grown because the NHS is devoting a lot of resources to find the common sense gene. The control group they are using, UKIP supporters, is proving to have no evidence of it existing, and the dilemma is what to do with all the failed experiments. The suggestion being discussed presently is whether to send them all to Australia or some impoverished African nation. "

Surely you mean poverished.

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By *ewcocol  (M) 5 days ago

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It's just the pedant in me, insisting things are correct.

p.s I don't mean a pedantic person doing me up trap 2 as I type.

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By *wdChris  (M) 5 days ago

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Its absolutely appauling that 4m Brits are on NHS waiting lists, whilst the millionare Conservatives are wasting billions on foreign aid n nuclear weapons.

Its disgusting init?

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*ikkjel.dag By *ikkjel.dag  (M) 5 days ago

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"The waiting list has grown because the NHS is devoting a lot of resources to find the common sense gene. The control group they are using, UKIP supporters, is proving to have no evidence of it existing, and the dilemma is what to do with all the failed experiments. The suggestion being discussed presently is whether to send them all to Australia or some impoverished African nation.

Surely you mean poverished."

No such word as "poverished": the word is indeed "impoverished".

A dictionary is a good tool for checking things like this.

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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"The waiting list has grown because the NHS is devoting a lot of resources to find the common sense gene. The control group they are using, UKIP supporters, is proving to have no evidence of it existing, and the dilemma is what to do with all the failed experiments. The suggestion being discussed presently is whether to send them all to Australia or some impoverished African nation.

Surely you mean poverished.

No such word as "poverished": the word is indeed "impoverished".

A dictionary is a good tool for checking things like this."

Sorry i was trying to be sarcastic

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By *rQuiet  (M) 5 days ago

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Statistics - guesses - 4wdChris - all much of a nonsense!

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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I just wish the OP would ONCE just find out before he posts items from the papers because yet again he has attempted to scare others on his with he wild accusations about the NHS with bland statements without the facts.

So let me give him a few, the NHS is made up of various groups, NHS Northern Ireland, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales and NHS England. I have looked at the analysts prepared by the Nuffield Trust and from one of their top economists who says that the United Kingdom as a whole is spending the same if not more of GDP than other wealthy European nations; in fact we are spending 9.7% of the UK’s total spending on healthcare which does include social care. What the difference is that some Countries like Germany, France, Sweden and the Netherlands have a mixture of insurance based care topped up by state funding. Here in the UK its all state funded.

Now let me give him the facts of this so called waiting list. This covers the whole of the United Kingdom, even though health is devolved in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with NHS England solely responsible for patients in England.

The lists complied to the end of June 2017comprises those not wanting urgent operations, those who have a first hospital out patient appointment, those who have their second hospital out patient appointment and those on the list for their final hospital out patient hospital appointment before the consultant decides whether a hospital procedure, surgery or tests are required. Then there are appointments for investigations, tests, x-rays. Then there are those who require hip or knee surgery on the lists. Including in the lists are those who are due to give birth, so hospital beds are allocated to the due date….all on a list.

I have looked at the lists for 2015 and 2016 and this year from July 2016 to June 2017 the demand for health care is at its highest level for 20 years. Patients are expecting more, treatments are becoming complex as more and more people are living longer and so many more procedures which were not on the NHS 30 years ago are routine now and patients expect more and more.

On top of this the cost of expensive treatments together with new drugs which help patient’s increases the budgets of the NHS and this will continue to rise year on year.

I know that procedures which not around when I first started in medicine thirty two years ago which were deemed risky and now are done in day surgeries where the patient arrived in the morning operated on and out later that day or the next day. All of this costs and unless we have an open debate as to how we are going to find the money for the NHS we are certainly going to find the NHS will have to ration certain treatments.

So to the OP, find out a little more before you puts this stupid headline grabbing threads because the majority are completely wrong.

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*ikkjel.dag By *ikkjel.dag  (M) 5 days ago

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"The waiting list has grown because the NHS is devoting a lot of resources to find the common sense gene. The control group they are using, UKIP supporters, is proving to have no evidence of it existing, and the dilemma is what to do with all the failed experiments. The suggestion being discussed presently is whether to send them all to Australia or some impoverished African nation.

Surely you mean poverished.

No such word as "poverished": the word is indeed "impoverished".

A dictionary is a good tool for checking things like this.

Sorry i was trying to be sarcastic "

Ah, damn it: I fell for that. Hoist with my own petard!

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*ikkjel.dag By *ikkjel.dag  (M) 5 days ago

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Touché...

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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and before the spelling police come out in force I should have said and I quote "The lists compiled to the end of June 2017" and not complied.

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*ikkjel.dag By *ikkjel.dag  (M) 5 days ago

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"I just wish the OP would ONCE just find out before he posts items from the papers because yet again he has attempted to scare others on his with he wild accusations about the NHS with bland statements without the facts.

So let me give him a few, the NHS is made up of various groups, NHS Northern Ireland, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales and NHS England. I have looked at the analysts prepared by the Nuffield Trust and from one of their top economists who says that the United Kingdom as a whole is spending the same if not more of GDP than other wealthy European nations; in fact we are spending 9.7% of the UK’s total spending on healthcare which does include social care. What the difference is that some Countries like Germany, France, Sweden and the Netherlands have a mixture of insurance based care topped up by state funding. Here in the UK its all state funded.

Now let me give him the facts of this so called waiting list. This covers the whole of the United Kingdom, even though health is devolved in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with NHS England solely responsible for patients in England.

The lists complied to the end of June 2017comprises those not wanting urgent operations, those who have a first hospital out patient appointment, those who have their second hospital out patient appointment and those on the list for their final hospital out patient hospital appointment before the consultant decides whether a hospital procedure, surgery or tests are required. Then there are appointments for investigations, tests, x-rays. Then there are those who require hip or knee surgery on the lists. Including in the lists are those who are due to give birth, so hospital beds are allocated to the due date….all on a list.

I have looked at the lists for 2015 and 2016 and this year from July 2016 to June 2017 the demand for health care is at its highest level for 20 years. Patients are expecting more, treatments are becoming complex as more and more people are living longer and so many more procedures which were not on the NHS 30 years ago are routine now and patients expect more and more.

On top of this the cost of expensive treatments together with new drugs which help patient’s increases the budgets of the NHS and this will continue to rise year on year.

I know that procedures which not around when I first started in medicine thirty two years ago which were deemed risky and now are done in day surgeries where the patient arrived in the morning operated on and out later that day or the next day. All of this costs and unless we have an open debate as to how we are going to find the money for the NHS we are certainly going to find the NHS will have to ration certain treatments.

So to the OP, find out a little more before you puts this stupid headline grabbing threads because the majority are completely wrong.

"

Let's hope the OP reads this carefully, but let's not hold our breaths...

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*astkenter By *astkenter   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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Quoting stats to defend a system that is clearly failing is not, in my view, very helpful. The system can only be improved if we ascertain the reasons and then look forward to find solutions, which are probably primarily financial (more money). There is also a problem with filling vacancies as applications have declined very significantly due to lack of clarity on Brexit.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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so another little fact for the OP, there were 775,584 babies born between July 2016 and June 2017 through NHS UK which included all devolved NHS area's of the UK. There is also an added figure for those babies which were still born births which I have not added....Each of those babies born had traetments in a hospital for 3 or more days...so work that cost out.

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By *ewcocol  (M) 5 days ago

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How is it going to be when 4wdChris and his UKIP friends send all staff from other countries back to where they shockingly came from?

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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As for defending the system up to 2010 I worked in the NHS all of my working life from medical school. I object to the OP simply spouting about 4 million on the waiting list in a bland statement. I have listed how the waiting list is made up. I will defend the NHS, but I will add this, there are many proceduires which should not be on the NHS and I have made this clear to Jeremy Hunt many times and there is also abuse of the system by many, many thousands simply because as most say "its free and I am entitled to treatments".

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*astkenter By *astkenter   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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There is no doubt some abuse of the system. My view is affected by my own experience - I had excellent healthcare in another EU country. I came to live in east Kent 16 years ago and even at that time it was very difficult to register with a GP. Now surgeries are closing as they can't recruit and it is well nigh impossible to get an appointment even if you are lucky enough to be registered with a GP. I was fortunate to have health insurance when I required treatment but can no longer afford it. In 2002 I had to wait nine months for cancer treatment and now have ailments that I just put up with as I can't get a GP appointment. According to the reasons quoted by Hunt, I am partly to blame for the difficulties for having the affrontery to live beyond retirement age! Japan started preparing for its ageing population 30 years ago. I am only one case in many millions but I am sure there are many more with similar stories to tell. When someone is on a long waiting list, it is little comfort to know why the list is so long and how it is compiled.

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By *ewcocol  (M) 5 days ago

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When I was diagnosed with cancer I had an appointment within two weeks of my first visit to my GP to be seen at hospital. I was given a date for surgery just fifteen days afterwards. The date was set while I was still on the examination table, the consultant opened his diary out on my bare stomach (it was cold) and arranged the date with me lying there mostly naked.

I did have a longer wait for heart surgery, but as the condition had been stabilised and being monitored I was in no immediate danger. My operation was postponed when I did go in for surgery, but the surgeon came to see me and explained they had had an emergency admission that needed immediate surgery to save the patient. My attitude was that if I had been rushed in and had been unable to get the treatment needed because the surgeon refused to change his list I would have died. So I had no qualms whatsoever about being shunted backwards. Someone else lived because I was in no immediate danger.

It also meant I was body shaved twice by a rather nice Irish male nurse, so bonus.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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thank you Mr Newcocol, I think we have a wonderful NHS and it does work when we need it. For those who slate the NHS ought to think how lucky we are in having a system which is free at the point of delivery......try America.....see the difference there!!!!

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*astkenter By *astkenter   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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I think the last remark goes some way to explaining why the NHS does not always work effectively - take on board what is said by people who have a good experience and completely disregard or dismiss those whose experience has been negative. We may be lucky not to have a system like that in America, but likewise we are unlucky not to have a system like France or Belgium.

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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Millionaire Conservative? Can anyone name a millionaire Socialist? Oh yes, hundreds of them including Jezza. Wasn't some upstart called Tony Blair a millionaire?

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By  *dowannafuck    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"thank you Mr Newcocol, I think we have a wonderful NHS and it does work when we need it. For those who slate the NHS ought to think how lucky we are in having a system which is free at the point of delivery......try America.....see the difference there!!!!"

I am very much a Labour supporter but I can not stand back and have the NHS criticised in my area the treatment is very good.

When I had my first Heart surgery I waited 2 weeks when I had my 2nd I waited 2 days

I would say it can be hit and miss as I know someone who was diagnosed a year ago with spinal cancer but has not had any surgery ( maybe it's not needed ) but he has also not had any tests scans etc even though he can not stand up and is doubly incontanat

As far as getting a GP appointment. my friend has been seen only by nurses no GP visits

For myself I can get an appointment when ever I need it and they call me with in 2 days if discharge from hospital

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 5 days ago

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"The 4m figures are in all the newspapers.

The millionare Conservatives have a record to be ashamed of."

You're an editor's dream - he writes it, you spread it. You wouldn't recognise the truth if you fell over it

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By *arry101  (M) 5 days ago

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"thank you Mr Newcocol, I think we have a wonderful NHS and it does work when we need it. For those who slate the NHS ought to think how lucky we are in having a system which is free at the point of delivery......try America.....see the difference there!!!!"

Free at the point of delivery?I am sick of people spouting that piece of crap.I pay a significant amount of tax for the NHS.I pay privately for dental care and eyes tests and glasses.I also have private medical insurance.I do self treat by buying over the counter medicines and seek advice from pharmacists who then sell me better medications.

Free?My arse!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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I had years of good health and never went near a surgery and only went to hospitals to visit friends and family who were patients. More recently I have been in and out of surgeries, clinics and hospitals on a very regular basis. I cannot fault the doctors or nurses although some of the admin staff don't seem to know what they are doing [I was sent an appointment for an operation two months after I had had it!] They do have difficulty coping as the population has grown and more people seem to have health problems these days. We can hardly blame this or any other government for that. I think we have a wonderful NHS and long may it continue.

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By *wdChris  (M) 5 days ago

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4m Brits on NHS waiting lists is a shameful story of Tory neglect by millionare Conservatives who can afford to go private and jump the quews n long waits.

They wud rather waste billions on nuclear weapons n foreign aid to countries with their own space programs that even we cannot afford rather than spend our own money on our own people.

They shud be totally ashamed.

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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If you have such issues with this country its government and how its run why dont you emigrate to a country that fits in better with your perception of how life should be?

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By  *dowannafuck    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"If you have such issues with this country its government and how its run why dont you emigrate to a country that fits in better with your perception of how life should be?"

No you country would have him

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By *wdChris  (M) 5 days ago

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@_vchristine, why dont you tell that to Corbyn n Cable n all the other tits n clowns in the idiotic Labour party n looney LibDems?

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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"If you have such issues with this country its government and how its run why dont you emigrate to a country that fits in better with your perception of how life should be?

No you country would have him "

Unfortunately your probably right.

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By *vchristine   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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"@_vchristine, why dont you tell that to Corbyn n Cable n all the other tits n clowns in the idiotic Labour party n looney LibDems?"

Oh its their turn to be at fault tonight then is it?

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By *ewcocol  (M) 5 days ago

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"@_vchristine, why dont you tell that to Corbyn n Cable n all the other tits n clowns in the idiotic Labour party n looney LibDems?"

You do appear to have a massive chip on your shoulder about the Labour party Chris. Did they tell you you weren't a suitable candidate to stand for the local council or something. Your outpourings remind me very much of a spurned wife/husband/boyfriend who can't get over the fact they have been jilted.

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By *HIOG  (M) 5 days ago

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"There is no doubt some abuse of the system. My view is affected by my own experience - I had excellent healthcare in another EU country. I came to live in east Kent 16 years ago and even at that time it was very difficult to register with a GP. Now surgeries are closing as they can't recruit and it is well nigh impossible to get an appointment even if you are lucky enough to be registered with a GP. I was fortunate to have health insurance when I required treatment but can no longer afford it. In 2002 I had to wait nine months for cancer treatment and now have ailments that I just put up with as I can't get a GP appointment. According to the reasons quoted by Hunt, I am partly to blame for the difficulties for having the affrontery to live beyond retirement age! Japan started preparing for its ageing population 30 years ago. I am only one case in many millions but I am sure there are many more with similar stories to tell. When someone is on a long waiting list, it is little comfort to know why the list is so long and how it is compiled."

Zackly.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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Harry 101

I am quoting your post “Free at the point of delivery?I am sick of people spouting that piece of crap.I pay a significant amount of tax for the NHS.I pay privately for dental care and eyes tests and glasses.I also have private medical insurance.I do self treat by buying over the counter medicines and seek advice from pharmacists who then sell me better medications. Free?My arse!”

So let me let you into a little secret, your General Taxation goes into a number of pots within Government, one of them the NHS, so what you put in going by your age may not even cover 6 visits or hospital stays. Let me tell you what it costs for ONE NIGHT’S stay in a hospital £550.00 that’s just for the bed, nursing for one night £120 per nurse, junior Doctor £275,00, food £90.00 (that includes the breakfast, lunch, tea and supper, drinks through the day such as tea and coffee, costs of the kitchen staff ) admin another £95.00. That’s £1100.00 with the costs of x-rays that would be another £300.00, scan that’s another £400,00, blood test another £120.00. One Consultant, another £460.00 that’s a TOTAL of £3,510.00 that does not include heating and lighting. Plus there could be further medical care like a registrar who would visit you, plus any medications you may require. Then there is the charge for the sheets, cleaning etc., REMEMBER the costs above are for ONE NIGHT ONLY. So please as I have said your taxation of £X spilt over £30 years based upon your age would not even see the light of day if you required several visits and stays.

When I first joined the NHS just over 30 years ago it was created out of the ideal that good healthcare should be available to all, regardless of wealth, that was the same then as when it was launched on July 5 1948, it was based on three core principles:

1. that it meet the needs of everyone

2. that it be free at the point of delivery

3. that it be based on clinical need, not ability to pay

These three principles have guided the development of the NHS over more than 60 years and remain at its core today, as I have said it remains the principle objective now as it did in 1948, the guiding principle of the NHS is to provide a comprehensive service available to all and I mean all.

Of course with the population changes and the role of Parliament the Secretary of State reviews the core value of the NHS. This principle applies irrespective of gender, race, disability, age, sexual orientation, religion, belief, gender reassignment, pregnancy and maternity or marital or civil partnership status. The service is designed to diagnose, treat and improve both physical and mental health. It has a duty to each and every individual that it serves and must respect their human rights. At the same time, it has a wider social duty to promote equality through the services it provides and to pay particular attention to groups or sections of society where improvements in health and life expectancy are not keeping pace with the rest of the population. SO YOU see the NHS moves with the times of social change, but the core principle stays the same…..FREE at the point of delivery

Access to NHS services is based on clinical need, not an individual’s ability to pay, NHS services are free of charge, except in limited circumstances sanctioned by Parliament. There are charges, such as prescriptions, eye tests and glasses, BUT there are various schemes to assist those who are on low incomes such as the NHS Low Income Scheme. If you have a low income, you may be able to get help with NHS costs through the NHS Low Income Scheme. You can also get help with health costs as I have outlined before for those getting Universal Credit. So if you receive Universal Credit, you may also qualify for help with health costs. If you pay for a prescription, providing you get a receipt and these costs would be refunded at the time you pay. So please Harry 101 don’t knock the NHS the Government helps those who even when working and their income is low they do get help. If your on benefits you simply pay NOTHING.

The NHS is committed and always has been in providing best value for taxpayers’ money and the most effective, fair and sustainable use of finite resources. Public funds for healthcare will be devoted solely to the benefit of the people that the NHS serves.

You have made your point about “I have paid my tax so I don’t get it for free”, the NHS is a national service funded through national taxation. The government sets the framework for the NHS, and it is accountable to Parliament for its operation. However, most decisions in the NHS, especially those about the treatment of individuals and the detailed organisation of services, are rightly taken by the local NHS and by patients with their clinicians. The system of responsibility and accountability for taking decisions in the NHS should be transparent and clear to the public, patients and staff. The government will ensure that there is always a clear and up-to-date statement of NHS accountability for this purpose.

So let me tell you NOW, 30 years ago the NHS had a core value it’s the same today with “the Commitment to quality of care” The NHS aspires to the highest standards of excellence and professionalism in the provision of high-quality care that is safe, effective and focused on patient experience. Quality of care is never and should not be compromised; the relentless pursuit of safe, compassionate care for every person who uses and relies on services is a collective endeavour, requiring collective effort and collaboration at every level of the system. The delivery of high-quality care is dependent on feedback, organisations that welcome feedback from patients and staff are able to identify and drive areas for improvement and I know that the NHS is constantly trying to improve on its services even if you Harry 101 don’t see this.

I believe the NHS has become compassionate in its care, this ties closely with respect and dignity in that individual patients, carers and relatives must be treated with sensitivity and kindness, I believe the NHS does this in abundance. Sometimes the NHS fails but hopefully we all have had a good experience when we have had to use the NHS?? The business of the NHS extends beyond providing clinical care and includes alleviating pain, distress, making people feel valued and that their concerns are important to the NHS as well.

Lastly and I think this is a very important point with regards to the NHS, the core function of the NHS is emphasised in this value, the NHS seeks to improve the health and wellbeing of patients, communities and its staff through professionalism, innovation and excellence in care. This value also recognises that to really improve lives the NHS needs to be helping people and their communities take responsibility for living healthier lives.

I would also say that the NHS believe that everyone counts, the NHS has a responsibility to maximise the benefits we (the patients) obtain from NHS resources, ensuring they are distributed FAIRLY to those most in need. Nobody should be discriminated or disadvantaged, and everyone should be treated with equal respect and importance. So Harry 101 I hope you take on board what I have said because no matter who you are, whether your rich or poor the NHS will look after us all.

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By *arry101  (M) 5 days ago

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Blue Knight,do not paraphrase what I have said.End of.

I know how it works so do not patronise me.You claim to have a fortune of £2million "earned" from your time in the NHS.That is just one more example of NHS management feathering their nests.So,forgive me for having no interest in your selfish opinion.

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*astkenter By *astkenter   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"... no matter who you are, whether your rich or poor the NHS will look after us all."

That is a laudable principle of the NHS but sadly not the reality for some of us. If the system were already perfect it would not require improvement, and it clearly does in some parts of the country.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"@_vchristine, why dont you tell that to Corbyn n Cable n all the other tits n clowns in the idiotic Labour party n looney LibDems?"

Well 4wdChrs [not I left the 'I' out because you still persist in leaving it out in the word 'millionaire'] you don't like the Conservatives running the country and you don't want Labour or the Libdems. Surely you don't want UKIP who are the only party of note who want to get rid of the NHS.

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By  *and    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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I wonder how many more are on the waiting list's because of the Doctors strike earlier

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*elicityfellatio By *elicityfellatio  (TV/TS/CD) 4 days ago

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Yeah I know what you mean, who do you trust? 53,000 doctors or Jeremy Cunt cunt?

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By *orchlad74  (M) 4 days ago

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One other thought to add to this thread (as an NHS employee), the NHS also suffers for patients not turning up for appointments. Consultant, Nurse, Junior Doc & Admin time all wasted when patients don't turn up for appointments. Meaning another appointment has to be booked, so the NHS has to pay those staff twice to see one patient.

If you have an appointment people, turn up for it, or cancel it enough in advance so that it can be used by another patient.

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By  *eightonpa1    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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Before anyone shouts me down read & think about what I say. Some reasons as I see it for the NHS at breaking point. 1) A&E over run with drunks & not just Friday & Saturday night it is turning out to be every night. As an ambulance has been called to them due to them passing out in the street the crew have a duty of care to take them to a place of safety (A&E) A&E then have that duty of care over them till they are sober the next morning. So a bed is needed for them to sleep off their drunken state. Some areas have started to have drunk hubs where ambulance crews can take the ones that don't need treatment just a safe place till they are fit to remember where they live. Freeing up beds. Moving on to problem 2) a broken social care for adults. fewer care homes. Care in their own home would be great if there were the carers to give it. where do they end up in A&E from a fall or bad infection be it chest or bladder normally? came back to that duty of care by the ambulance crew who often are called by lifeline staff from an elderly person press their call button. The crew take them into A&E the duty of care is passed on to the A&E who have to find a bed for them & then it can take weeks to get the care package put in place due to social workers being overworked at one time (only 10yrs ago) a worker would have only about 10 on their books now its more like 25-30. So an overnight stay for someone aged 30 with a bad infection needing IV drugs turns into a 3 or 4 week for an elderly person. Both cases laid out taking beds & time that would be given to appointment & surge. Case one I feel should be made to pay for their night out a getting so drunk they pass out. I got drunk when I was 18-25 but never once did I need an ambulance to get me to a safe place. Even if the bill was only the cost of a B&B at £25 they would soon start drinking wise & get home safe.

Another problem in my area is the 111 service you ring them know an out of hours GP can deal with your problem & they say you need an ambulance & A&E. Many time I have said NO I want to see an out of hours GP. If they then think I need A&E I'll go. Out of the last 6 chest infections I have had using the 111 service which all said A&E by ambulance only 1 was needed & that was down to my temp hitting 40c in with the doctor.

As a former NHS worker, I find it hurtful that people don't understand how numbers are made up on lists. When I started work as a health care some 23 Yrs ago I was 1 of 2 HC to 12 beds now it is often 1 HC to 12 or 16 beds & more nursing staff than HC on the ward now more HC than nurses & often they patients don't understand there are things an HC can't do like restart drips unless they are trained in it (not the norm) give drugs out. put catheters in or take them out (unless trained to do so) I did the training to do this be before a move from care home worker to Health care in a hospital. Please think we all get this service free. the US they ask you in ER if you have the right health care before treatment. In Germany I know it to be the same & one person has said the health care is better in Germany I have got a friend who has been waiting for 2yrs for a knee op cancelled twice & put back on the list not at the top but the bottom. If we get a cancelled op we are given the next slot.

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By  *eightonpa1    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"One other thought to add to this thread (as an NHS employee), the NHS also suffers for patients not turning up for appointments. Consultant, Nurse, Junior Doc & Admin time all wasted when patients don't turn up for appointments. Meaning another appointment has to be booked, so the NHS has to pay those staff twice to see one patient.

If you have an appointment people, turn up for it, or cancel it enough in advance so that it can be used by another patient."

Agree but sometimes you can't help cancelling at last moment due to PTS not turning up or sending a car for a wheelchair person.

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*ikkjel.dag By *ikkjel.dag  (M) 4 days ago

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"@_vchristine, why dont you tell that to Corbyn n Cable n all the other tits n clowns in the idiotic Labour party n looney LibDems?

Well 4wdChrs [not I left the 'I' out because you still persist in leaving it out in the word 'millionaire'] you don't like the Conservatives running the country and you don't want Labour or the Libdems. Surely you don't want UKIP who are the only party of note who want to get rid of the NHS."

Certainly not a Green: but probably smokes it...

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By *aravaggio   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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You could not register with a GP?? ..... I find that difficult to believe. You cannot make an appointment to see a GP?? ..... that is bollocks, as every GP's surgery I've ever come across operates an emergency sit and wait system for same day consultations. Message me your post code and I guarantee I'll find you a selection of GPs who can offer you the service I've outlined above.

That said, the NHS will never be able to offer the level of service it previously did. We desperately need a different way of funding the service which not only caters for the nation's needs, but also attracts clinical staff to it's payroll. We also need to look at ways of splitting the service into more constituent parts, rather than trying to carry on with the anomalous mass that exists nowadays. However, successive governments have treated this subject as a hot potato, changing the beloved NHS is not seen as a vote winner ...... above all, the general public need to be thoroughly educated regarding the failings of the NHS and the alternatives that are possible. Sound bites and headlines only give further fodder to the moronic masses. ...

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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All the GP's in my town are housed in the same building. None of them operates a sit and wait system. You either have to phone at 8am for a morning appt, or 1 pm for an afternoon one (idf they have any available.)

We can however, book our appointments online, which often has appointments for the same day, which they don't tell you about when you phone. You can see the full calendar of appointments for each doctor.

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By *aravaggio   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"All the GP's in my town are housed in the same building. None of them operates a sit and wait system. You either have to phone at 8am for a morning appt, or 1 pm for an afternoon one (idf they have any available.)

We can however, book our appointments online, which often has appointments for the same day, which they don't tell you about when you phone. You can see the full calendar of appointments for each doctor."

Which bunch of numpties came up with that idea? So how far do some people have to travel to see a GP? That's a crazy idea! Parking must be fun ...

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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It's a small town. The medical centre is purpose built and has modern facilities. There are 6 GP surgeries, each within its own suite of rooms. One whole floor is a diagnostic and treament centre. There is a 5 story car park as part of the building. Also, there's a huge pharmacy, so people don't have to travel to get there medicines, although we can choose to have our 'scripts' sent to any pharmacy we like, electonically.

It works extremely well.

I'm not sure any 'numpties' were involved and it's far from crazy.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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So let’s just look Mr Harry 101 at what we actually spend in just NHS England, the annual spend on the NHS has now reached £2,160 per person, so you may say well that’s not very much? So let me tell you how this is calculated, for each person in the area of NHS England whether you use the NHS or not each person is allocated the sum of £2,160 per year. This means yes there are people who will use more than that figure and yes there are those who will not use that figures for many, many years. This figure has continued to rise steadily in terms of the percentage of Britain’s total income, increasing from 4.7 per cent in 1997 to 7.4 per cent at the end of 2016.

Further to what has been published so far the Conservative Party have pledged to pump in an extra £8 billion a year by 2022/23, that’s EXTRA on top of what we have allocated for the NHS in 2017 at £123.709bn, what have Labour said they would pledge or yes £7.4 billion.

But, with the continued year and year rise in funding into the NHS still the lie that we the Tories have presided over NHS cuts endures, and yes I often ask why??? I think sometimes it’s so much easier to shout this continuing mantra than facing reality. For the cold, hard truth is that, despite record levels of spending, our National Health Service is collapsing. Oh yes and this is me saying this, it is collapsing, those of us who have been aware of this from the early 2000’s have also known that this simply cannot go on and on and on, but this is not because the Government is taking money away for it is not.

We have a NHS which as we all know is free at the point of delivery, Oh yes Mr Harry 101 I have said it again and I will continue to say it time and time again because its true. No matter what you say its free and its something of which I have been proud to have worked in since the age of 23, but and yes it’s a big BUT, despite record funds being put in, the DEMANDS made on the NHS are outstripping the money being poured in. The problem is that the calls on our health service are growing exponentially. We expect it to give us whatever we want, oh yes and if we don’t get it we shout without a second thought as to how it’s going to be paid for, it’s ours so we have to have it, ITS OUR RIGHT that’s the mantra from thousands. With advances in medicine, combined with an ageing population, mean that the costs of providing this are rising exponentially, too and these costs will go on rising and rising until some day there simply is not the funds there for a COMPLETLY FREE health service.

Let’s just take the bill for drugs for NHS England, in the past five years alone has risen by around 50 per cent. If the NHS is to survive despite these burdens, then we must also take individual responsibility for the way we use it and the pressure we place on its precious resources. The costs to NHS England alone on missed appointments whether to visit the GP surgery or a hospital is staggering and yet these people still say even if they miss an appointment its our NHS and no one can stop us using it, something has to change and change fast, the NHS simply doesn’t have bottomless pockets although some think this even on this site.

Yet people don’t want to take responsibility for their health because they don’t see the point since the NHS will be there to pick up the pieces. People use and abuse the NHS because they see it as “free”. They fail to turn up to appointments, needlessly call out ambulances or go to A&E because it’s more convenient than seeing a GP. They feel entitled to demand whatever treatment they want.

Has the NHS changed? yes it has, the problem is that the NHS is from a different, simpler time of 1948, when it was conceived it was there to carry out the most simplest of procedures. It’s unrealistic to expect it to be able to keep up with the demands this brave new world places on it. What we really need is a serious, profound debate about what the NHS is actually for, I have called for this since 2010 and during my time at the Department of Health in London on several fronts this was dismissed by the BMA and those other front line services within the NHS, I am afraid the NHS is a sacred cow never to be touched as long as we keep pumping money into it??? All political parties are afraid to change the structure and funding of the NHS, why because it’s a vote loser.

We need to decide how it’s going to be funded and what we can expect it to provide, many questions have to be asked and some conversations which many will not want to have, do we, as a society, want the NHS to pay for obesity surgery, or IVF, for example? Some are even saying why give gay people Prep when you cannot give people a new knee or even some very expensive cancer drugs. These discussions have been going on since 2010 and whilst many know what the answer is, there is no political stomach to say to the British Public, enough is enough now you must start paying into an insurance scheme. Sadly that won’t happen which is why you get ludicrous headlines like the one in this thread.

Several generations have now been born and brought up under its care and don’t know anything different, simply put, they take it for granted and that’s one of the main problems.

The real problem is not the fantasy of Tory cuts, but the fact that our expectations of the NHS are more than it can ever deliver and that was the case 15 years ago and not just now.

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By *wdChris  (M) 4 days ago

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4m Brits on NHS waiting lists is a shameful story of Tory neglect by millionare Conservatives who can afford to go private and jump the quews n long waits.

They wud rather waste billions on nuclear weapons n foreign aid to countries with their own space programs that even we cannot afford rather than spend our own money on our own people.

They shud be totally ashamed.

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By  *dowannafuck    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"So let’s just look Mr Harry 101 at what we actually spend in just NHS England, the annual spend on the NHS has now reached £2,160 per person, so you may say well that’s not very much? So let me tell you how this is calculated, for each person in the area of NHS England whether you use the NHS or not each person is allocated the sum of £2,160 per year. This means yes there are people who will use more than that figure and yes there are those who will not use that figures for many, many years. This figure has continued to rise steadily in terms of the percentage of Britain’s total income, increasing from 4.7 per cent in 1997 to 7.4 per cent at the end of 2016.

Further to what has been published so far the Conservative Party have pledged to pump in an extra £8 billion a year by 2022/23, that’s EXTRA on top of what we have allocated for the NHS in 2017 at £123.709bn, what have Labour said they would pledge or yes £7.4 billion.

But, with the continued year and year rise in funding into the NHS still the lie that we the Tories have presided over NHS cuts endures, and yes I often ask why??? I think sometimes it’s so much easier to shout this continuing mantra than facing reality. For the cold, hard truth is that, despite record levels of spending, our National Health Service is collapsing. Oh yes and this is me saying this, it is collapsing, those of us who have been aware of this from the early 2000’s have also known that this simply cannot go on and on and on, but this is not because the Government is taking money away for it is not.

We have a NHS which as we all know is free at the point of delivery, Oh yes Mr Harry 101 I have said it again and I will continue to say it time and time again because its true. No matter what you say its free and its something of which I have been proud to have worked in since the age of 23, but and yes it’s a big BUT, despite record funds being put in, the DEMANDS made on the NHS are outstripping the money being poured in. The problem is that the calls on our health service are growing exponentially. We expect it to give us whatever we want, oh yes and if we don’t get it we shout without a second thought as to how it’s going to be paid for, it’s ours so we have to have it, ITS OUR RIGHT that’s the mantra from thousands. With advances in medicine, combined with an ageing population, mean that the costs of providing this are rising exponentially, too and these costs will go on rising and rising until some day there simply is not the funds there for a COMPLETLY FREE health service.

Let’s just take the bill for drugs for NHS England, in the past five years alone has risen by around 50 per cent. If the NHS is to survive despite these burdens, then we must also take individual responsibility for the way we use it and the pressure we place on its precious resources. The costs to NHS England alone on missed appointments whether to visit the GP surgery or a hospital is staggering and yet these people still say even if they miss an appointment its our NHS and no one can stop us using it, something has to change and change fast, the NHS simply doesn’t have bottomless pockets although some think this even on this site.

Yet people don’t want to take responsibility for their health because they don’t see the point since the NHS will be there to pick up the pieces. People use and abuse the NHS because they see it as “free”. They fail to turn up to appointments, needlessly call out ambulances or go to A&E because it’s more convenient than seeing a GP. They feel entitled to demand whatever treatment they want.

Has the NHS changed? yes it has, the problem is that the NHS is from a different, simpler time of 1948, when it was conceived it was there to carry out the most simplest of procedures. It’s unrealistic to expect it to be able to keep up with the demands this brave new world places on it. What we really need is a serious, profound debate about what the NHS is actually for, I have called for this since 2010 and during my time at the Department of Health in London on several fronts this was dismissed by the BMA and those other front line services within the NHS, I am afraid the NHS is a sacred cow never to be touched as long as we keep pumping money into it??? All political parties are afraid to change the structure and funding of the NHS, why because it’s a vote loser.

We need to decide how it’s going to be funded and what we can expect it to provide, many questions have to be asked and some conversations which many will not want to have, do we, as a society, want the NHS to pay for obesity surgery, or IVF, for example? Some are even saying why give gay people Prep when you cannot give people a new knee or even some very expensive cancer drugs. These discussions have been going on since 2010 and whilst many know what the answer is, there is no political stomach to say to the British Public, enough is enough now you must start paying into an insurance scheme. Sadly that won’t happen which is why you get ludicrous headlines like the one in this thread.

Several generations have now been born and brought up under its care and don’t know anything different, simply put, they take it for granted and that’s one of the main problems.

The real problem is not the fantasy of Tory cuts, but the fact that our expectations of the NHS are more than it can ever deliver and that was the case 15 years ago and not just now.

"

I would agree with you in lots of ways

personally I don't think Prep should be available on the NHS or Cosmetic surgery except for injuries caused by crime or a fire/ car crash etc

The biggest problem is the huge profits demanded by drugs companies followed by the Huge amounts of managerial level people

yes all governments have tried a top down fix what is needed is a knife to middle manager level The top people do a good job and those who are face to face with public are in generally brilliant but way to much is wasted in middle management

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By *aravaggio   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"

yes all governments have tried a top down fix what is needed is a knife to middle manager level The top people do a good job and those who are face to face with public are in generally brilliant but way to much is wasted in middle management"

Would you say that middle management is a drain on the resources of industry? Would you say that middle management is a drain on the resources of the retail sector? Would you say that middle management is a drain on the resources of transport sector? Of course you wouldn't, so why say it about the health sector?? In actual fact, its middle management that actually run most organisations on a day to day basis. You've been listening to too many idiots talking about that which they know nothing of.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"4m Brits on NHS waiting lists is a shameful story of Tory neglect by millionare Conservatives who can afford to go private and jump the quews n long waits.

They wud rather waste billions on nuclear weapons n foreign aid to countries with their own space programs that even we cannot afford rather than spend our own money on our own people.

They shud be totally ashamed."

It's a bit like a chorus the way you keep repeating yourself every half dozen or so posts. Were you in your school opera by any chance

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 4 days ago

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"4m Brits on NHS waiting lists is a shameful story of Tory neglect by millionare Conservatives who can afford to go private and jump the quews n long waits.

They wud rather waste billions on nuclear weapons n foreign aid to countries with their own space programs that even we cannot afford rather than spend our own money on our own people.

They shud be totally ashamed."

most of them aren't brits, they're australians who can't get treatment over there because they're over-run by foreigners and they don't know where they all came from

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*OMMY TIMKEN By  *OMMY TIMKEN    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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There are far too many Chief Executives,Corporate Managers etc etc etc.

All on mega-wages.

I nursed for 40 years,started in 1973.

Witnessed tail-end of the old Matron era.

There was one person in charge of the budget,and he was called a "Hospital Secretary".

Matron did the rest of the organising.

There are too many pen pushers now in the NHS,

Get rid of them and you'd save millions.

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By *ewcocol  (M) 4 days ago

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Sometimes when trying to get a member to understand it does feel very much like you are dealing with a toddler that has no concept of right and wrong.

I wonder how long the NHS waiting lists are for the treatment of such feelings. Shocking innit what you can get treated for these days.

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By *he Blue Knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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yes and Mr Newcocol, the Department is now restricting cock enhancements, you may ask why…its all because the Daily Pisspress is asking for longer willies……its all UKIP’s fault…they want inches whereas the EU wants millimetres......shame aint it

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By *ewcocol  (M) 4 days ago

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So Mr Raymond's organ want longer organs. Not surprising from a former pornographer.

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