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Social Housing

By *eic2020  (M)  over a year ago

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So it's now all over the news again how short we are of social housing - well I wonder why that is? Local councils tell us there is no money to build and that they have run out of suitable land that they already own. So they cannot afford new land and even if they had some they havn't the finance to build. Whose fault is this? Well before I start I will say I am jealous and a hypocrite. I bought my first house in 1977 scraped together the deposit and after Thatcher came into office mortgage rates went up to 15% (early 80's not her fault I don't think)I struggled like crazy to keep my house - repayments through the roof and working all hours God sent. Suddenly council house tenants were offered 'Right to Buy' massive dicounts!! Wait a minute, I needed a house same as everyone else, but I don't remember anyone offering me a discount - no it was full valuation price. Then am thinking - but these houses that folk are buying belong to the Income Tax payer, the National Insurance payer and the Council Tax payer.I contributed to ALL those taxes, but no bugger ever asked me if I thought discounts should be offered to 'Selected' people but not all.So houses were offered to tenants - not just a discount but at a price that was less than the cost to build - something wrong here I thought. to be fair to those tenants - if you are offers a deal like that you would be a twat not to take it up and I would have been first in the queue. (This is where I said 'don't accuse me of being a hypocrite' as if I had been a tenant I too would have been first in line. That said I firmly believe this discount to be morally wrong. I know someone who many years ago now was in a council property - had the right to buy, soon as the mortgage was approved - stopped working and claimed housing benefit and has paid the mortgage on housing benefit eversince. So the tax payer has bought that house for them. My 'Jealousy' at the start of my comments - yes I am jealous. If this 'Right to buy' had never been started we would probably not have the social housing problem we now have.

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By *dge73   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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my nan turned down her right to buy even thow my mum and dad said they would have paid it for her

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"So it's now all over the news again how short we are of social housing - well I wonder why that is? Local councils tell us there is no money to build and that they have run out of suitable land that they already own. So they cannot afford new land and even if they had some they havn't the finance to build. Whose fault is this? Well before I start I will say I am jealous and a hypocrite. I bought my first house in 1977 scraped together the deposit and after Thatcher came into office mortgage rates went up to 15% (early 80's not her fault I don't think)I struggled like crazy to keep my house - repayments through the roof and working all hours God sent. Suddenly council house tenants were offered 'Right to Buy' massive dicounts!! Wait a minute, I needed a house same as everyone else, but I don't remember anyone offering me a discount - no it was full valuation price. Then am thinking - but these houses that folk are buying belong to the Income Tax payer, the National Insurance payer and the Council Tax payer.I contributed to ALL those taxes, but no bugger ever asked me if I thought discounts should be offered to 'Selected' people but not all.So houses were offered to tenants - not just a discount but at a price that was less than the cost to build - something wrong here I thought. to be fair to those tenants - if you are offers a deal like that you would be a twat not to take it up and I would have been first in the queue. (This is where I said 'don't accuse me of being a hypocrite' as if I had been a tenant I too would have been first in line. That said I firmly believe this discount to be morally wrong. I know someone who many years ago now was in a council property - had the right to buy, soon as the mortgage was approved - stopped working and claimed housing benefit and has paid the mortgage on housing benefit eversince. So the tax payer has bought that house for them. My 'Jealousy' at the start of my comments - yes I am jealous. If this 'Right to buy' had never been started we would probably not have the social housing problem we now have."

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that housing benefit only paid the interest and not the capital?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"So it's now all over the news again how short we are of social housing - well I wonder why that is? Local councils tell us there is no money to build and that they have run out of suitable land that they already own. So they cannot afford new land and even if they had some they havn't the finance to build. Whose fault is this? Well before I start I will say I am jealous and a hypocrite. I bought my first house in 1977 scraped together the deposit and after Thatcher came into office mortgage rates went up to 15% (early 80's not her fault I don't think)I struggled like crazy to keep my house - repayments through the roof and working all hours God sent. Suddenly council house tenants were offered 'Right to Buy' massive dicounts!! Wait a minute, I needed a house same as everyone else, but I don't remember anyone offering me a discount - no it was full valuation price. Then am thinking - but these houses that folk are buying belong to the Income Tax payer, the National Insurance payer and the Council Tax payer.I contributed to ALL those taxes, but no bugger ever asked me if I thought discounts should be offered to 'Selected' people but not all.So houses were offered to tenants - not just a discount but at a price that was less than the cost to build - something wrong here I thought. to be fair to those tenants - if you are offers a deal like that you would be a twat not to take it up and I would have been first in the queue. (This is where I said 'don't accuse me of being a hypocrite' as if I had been a tenant I too would have been first in line. That said I firmly believe this discount to be morally wrong. I know someone who many years ago now was in a council property - had the right to buy, soon as the mortgage was approved - stopped working and claimed housing benefit and has paid the mortgage on housing benefit eversince. So the tax payer has bought that house for them. My 'Jealousy' at the start of my comments - yes I am jealous. If this 'Right to buy' had never been started we would probably not have the social housing problem we now have."

Quite agree there, Thatcher started it all by selling most of them off possibly to some people who could easily afford to buy a house privately, now people who need such social housing cannot get it because there isn't any

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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New houses are appearing all over the country. Springing up like bloody mushrooms in autumn. Apparently, we have a housing shortage, although being a keen buyer of houses for my property portfolio, I haven't noticed a shortage of properties for sale, especially those at the cheaper end of the market.

All this building activity, all this over-running of previous greenfield sites, is nothing more than wealth creation. A new property is invariably more expensive than an equivalent existing property, so its also inflationary. The cheaper properties are snaffled up by landlords and housing associations, so it does nothing towards getting new owners onto the system. We're told that we need the houses because we have to attract workers to the area. Really?? In Hampshire alone, we have upwards of 50,000 new houses being built, but unfulfilled job opportunities are less than 2000. Something doesn't quite stack up there, does it?

So, what does all this building work do? It provides loads of building jobs, which provides loads of lovely tax via wages and stamp duty. It provides overloads on existing infrastructure, which in turn creates jobs and more tax, when improvements have to be made. This isn't real wealth creation. We're climbing towards the top of a pyramid, and pretty soon, we'll have no option other than to slide down the other side. Its short terminism gone mad. there is nothing sustainable whatsoever about it.

Right, so there we have the housing market fucked up big time for a few years, what next? Ah yes! HS2/3/4. Another white elephant, but it will keep the tax rolling in for a few years, irrespective of how many people's lives it blights, and the fact that it will be no good to man nor beast ..... literally.

Here's a novel idea. If they want job creation, why don't they deport all those illegals, and fill the ensuing jobs with people who have a right to be here?

Why don't they concentrate on affording university places to British youth, rather than those who can afford to pay extortionate fees, and who subsequently take their knowledge and skills back to their own country.

Here's a good one ..... why don't we kick out all the Eastern European millionaires/billionaires, who for a paltry annual charge of £30,000 get to enjoy a virtually tax free existence, whilst at the same time, pushing up the prices of just about everything, especially in London, and the Home Counties? What, I hear you say? Too many people of supposed power with their snouts in the trough??? ...... could be more than a smidgeon of truth in that, I guess ....

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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I agreed with the principle of selling council houses to tenants when it was first proposed in 1979. Initially it was to sell to long term tenants who had probably already paid for the house in rent over the years. Then it got to the point any tenant could buy and the discount based on the length of their tenancy. Also the sale of said housing was to provide money to build more. This just did not happen. Some councils are imposing a 5O% council tax surcharge on 2nd homes to provide money to build new social housing,but I expect the money will be frittered away on other things.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Interesting that the Tories get the blame. the idea was actually from Labour who initially proposed the idea of the right of tenants to own the house they live in. This was in their manifesto for the 1959 general election.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Here's what i don't understand, i live on an estate, some of the properties are housing association properties, the other council properties, the council properties were basically pre-fabs put up 30-40 years ago as temp housing. A couple of years ago the council sold the land to developers who for the past two years have been knocking down and rebuilding. the problem now is, as i believe is a legal demand, a third of the new housing has to be for the purpose of council tennants, all well and good but it also means two thirds of the new housing is sold privately, therfore reducing social housing in the area not increasing.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"New houses are appearing all over the country. Springing up like bloody mushrooms in autumn. Apparently, we have a housing shortage, although being a keen buyer of houses for my property portfolio, I haven't noticed a shortage of properties for sale, especially those at the cheaper end of the market.

All this building activity, all this over-running of previous greenfield sites, is nothing more than wealth creation. A new property is invariably more expensive than an equivalent existing property, so its also inflationary. The cheaper properties are snaffled up by landlords and housing associations, so it does nothing towards getting new owners onto the system. We're told that we need the houses because we have to attract workers to the area. Really?? In Hampshire alone, we have upwards of 50,000 new houses being built, but unfulfilled job opportunities are less than 2000. Something doesn't quite stack up there, does it?

So, what does all this building work do? It provides loads of building jobs, which provides loads of lovely tax via wages and stamp duty. It provides overloads on existing infrastructure, which in turn creates jobs and more tax, when improvements have to be made. This isn't real wealth creation. We're climbing towards the top of a pyramid, and pretty soon, we'll have no option other than to slide down the other side. Its short terminism gone mad. there is nothing sustainable whatsoever about it.

Right, so there we have the housing market fucked up big time for a few years, what next? Ah yes! HS2/3/4. Another white elephant, but it will keep the tax rolling in for a few years, irrespective of how many people's lives it blights, and the fact that it will be no good to man nor beast ..... literally.

Here's a novel idea. If they want job creation, why don't they deport all those illegals, and fill the ensuing jobs with people who have a right to be here?

Why don't they concentrate on affording university places to British youth, rather than those who can afford to pay extortionate fees, and who subsequently take their knowledge and skills back to their own country.

Here's a good one ..... why don't we kick out all the Eastern European millionaires/billionaires, who for a paltry annual charge of £30,000 get to enjoy a virtually tax free existence, whilst at the same time, pushing up the prices of just about everything, especially in London, and the Home Counties? What, I hear you say? Too many people of supposed power with their snouts in the trough??? ...... could be more than a smidgeon of truth in that, I guess .... "

Well said Carra, if only it could be as simple as that but Im sure someone will come up with the reason why all that just would not be viable or give an oppoite view point.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Before the grammar/spelling police notice and comment I mean't "opposite".

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Some tenants bought their council houses prior to Mrs Thatcher's days. Perhaps this was indivual council's decisions rather that actual government policy.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Some tenants bought their council houses prior to Mrs Thatcher's days. Perhaps this was indivual council's decisions rather that actual government policy."

Exactly so it was not Mrs Thatcher who solely is responsible. The whole idea was a Labour Idea. Would be interesting to know if your right who was controlling the councils.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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What I find incomprehensible is that we have thousands of people on the streets, countless thousands more in B&B accommodation or hotels and we're having to build something like 200,000 more houses just to keep our heads above water.

But we're still letting people into our country and allowing them to stay here, making a bad situation even worse and letting them use up our already scant resources. Little wonder the far right seem to be gaining in popularity. And no, I'm not one of them.

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By *eeksYounger  (M)  over a year ago

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"Some tenants bought their council houses prior to Mrs Thatcher's days. Perhaps this was indivual council's decisions rather that actual government policy.

Exactly so it was not Mrs Thatcher who solely is responsible. The whole idea was a Labour Idea. Would be interesting to know if your right who was controlling the councils. "

I think you'll find that it was a Liberal Party idea and policy. Labour were against it and Thatcher nicked it.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Some tenants bought their council houses prior to Mrs Thatcher's days. Perhaps this was indivual council's decisions rather that actual government policy.

Exactly so it was not Mrs Thatcher who solely is responsible. The whole idea was a Labour Idea. Would be interesting to know if your right who was controlling the councils.

When was this?

I think you'll find that it was a Liberal Party idea and policy. Labour were against it and Thatcher nicked it."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Some tenants bought their council houses prior to Mrs Thatcher's days. Perhaps this was indivual council's decisions rather that actual government policy.

Exactly so it was not Mrs Thatcher who solely is responsible. The whole idea was a Labour Idea. Would be interesting to know if your right who was controlling the councils.

When was this?

I think you'll find that it was a Liberal Party idea and policy. Labour were against it and Thatcher nicked it."

When was this?

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By *eeksYounger  (M)  over a year ago

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Mid-1970's.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I lived quite happily as a council tenant for years

Then a few things happened. My job changed, lower wages. The council off loaded all it's housing stock to a trust, from the moment they did that the rents went up and the quality of service down.

I did some simple calculations and found that I could buy the house outright for what I would be paying in rent in just over two years, so I bought it. Purely an economic decision.

There are hundreds of suitable empty homes within a mile of me. But here is what happens.

The Trust earmarks an area for upgrading, spends a small fortune doing them up with various grants and funding. Then two years later those same newly refurbished houses are demolished. The area zoned for redevelopment. New houses then thrown up in record time for sale on the open market. It is a bit of a scam all round.

Grants are banded about all over again for the next zone. Jobs are created for a while, boxes ticked and fat profits made. But not much new social housing.

There is no such thing as affordable home building in a desirable area. Once a home is on the secondary market the price will rise to reflect demand.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Mid-1970's. "

As I said above it was in the Labour Party manifesto for the 1959 election which they lost.

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By *eeksYounger  (M)  over a year ago

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"Mid-1970's.

As I said above it was in the Labour Party manifesto for the 1959 election which they lost.

"

The Labour manifesto of 1959 allowed councils to buy sub standard housing from landlords; renovate it and sell it back to the tenants. There was no question of stupid discounts which would leave councils having to pay the mortgage on property they no longer owned.

Sorry I am unable to contribute here on a regular basis, but I have a proper job which means I can only dip in and out.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Think you may find that local authorities were selling houses even before 1959 under The provisions of Housing act 1952.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Mid-1970's.

As I said above it was in the Labour Party manifesto for the 1959 election which they lost.

The Labour manifesto of 1959 allowed councils to buy sub standard housing from landlords; renovate it and sell it back to the tenants. There was no question of stupid discounts which would leave councils having to pay the mortgage on property they no longer owned.

Sorry I am unable to contribute here on a regular basis, but I have a proper job which means I can only dip in and out."

Lol I wonder what a proper job is. I have a job as well.

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By  *ebelatsea    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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My son and fiancée are trying to find a house or a flat they can afford. So far they have found six BUT, each one comes with on going and increasing annual service charges and they are told "oh no these are not mortgageable". How the fuck are young people supposed to be able to get a foot on then ladder.

BTW developers building on plots with an obligation to add "affordable" properties is a con and a lie. There are three new estates within 2miles of me with the "affordable" word on their hoardings. Do a bit more digging and what do we find, as I said above, unmortgageable and with increasing annual charges.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"My son and fiancée are trying to find a house or a flat they can afford. So far they have found six BUT, each one comes with on going and increasing annual service charges and they are told "oh no these are not mortgageable". How the fuck are young people supposed to be able to get a foot on then ladder.

BTW developers building on plots with an obligation to add "affordable" properties is a con and a lie. There are three new estates within 2miles of me with the "affordable" word on their hoardings. Do a bit more digging and what do we find, as I said above, unmortgageable and with increasing annual charges.

"

I don't get why they can't get a mortgage because of a service charge.

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By  *ebelatsea    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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The properties are not un mortgageable because of service charge, it's because the developers want cash sales outright.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"The properties are not un mortgageable because of service charge, it's because the developers want cash sales outright.

"

That's the same as a cash sale. The vendor gets the money from the mortgage provider.

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By *eic2020  (M)  over a year ago

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That's true, but, if you pay capital only for a house (interest free) that saving is much more than significant. Wish my mortgage had been interest free. I would have been laughing all the way to the proverbial bank.

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By *eic2020  (M)  over a year ago

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I have read comments about which party was responsible for the implementation of right to buy. I thought it was a Thatcher policy, but whoever had the idea it was a bad one. I repeat again, the Social Housing stock is owned by the taxpayer and should not have been used to benefit the few. The excuse that if you rented a council house for a few years then you could have bought it, so that then qualifies you for a discounted price is total crap. So what about people who have bought properties to increase their 'Portfolio' of properties they then rent out privately. What would they say if the government made them sell to sitting tenants at a discount. You could here the cries of disapproval for miles around.

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By *avep  (TV/TS/CD)  over a year ago

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Selling council houses in the 80s looking back now was a bad idea. Building places in cities and allowing investors to buy and not use should also be stopped. Particularly overseas ones.

If the banks paid a bit more interest on savings then buying property would be less of a need.

It's all a consumer market. What can anyone do?

You legislate someone finds a way round it (off-shore investment for example) which are then considered unethical.

Ban money perhaps.

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By  *ebelatsea    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"The properties are not un mortgageable because of service charge, it's because the developers want cash sales outright.

That's the same as a cash sale. The vendor gets the money from the mortgage provider."

I'd agree, in my parents day that was how it worked. now the greedy buggers want to money up front.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"The properties are not un mortgageable because of service charge, it's because the developers want cash sales outright.

That's the same as a cash sale. The vendor gets the money from the mortgage provider.

I'd agree, in my parents day that was how it worked. now the greedy buggers want to money up front."

I do not believe that for one moment. The money laundering rules in the UK are so tight. You have to jump through hoops to prove where the money comes from and the solicitor dealing with it has to have written evidence where it comes from.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"The properties are not un mortgageable because of service charge, it's because the developers want cash sales outright.

That's the same as a cash sale. The vendor gets the money from the mortgage provider.

I'd agree, in my parents day that was how it worked. now the greedy buggers want to money up front.

I do not believe that for one moment. The money laundering rules in the UK are so tight. You have to jump through hoops to prove where the money comes from and the solicitor dealing with it has to have written evidence where it comes from."

The above is true ...... unless you're talking multi million pound properties, and then due diligence regarding the money trail seems to be irrelevant. Get yourself a shell company or three, an offshore account, and buy whatever you like with dirty money. I guarantee that any property over £5million will never have the actual inhabiter's name on the title deeds.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"I have read comments about which party was responsible for the implementation of right to buy. I thought it was a Thatcher policy, but whoever had the idea it was a bad one. I repeat again, the Social Housing stock is owned by the taxpayer and should not have been used to benefit the few. The excuse that if you rented a council house for a few years then you could have bought it, so that then qualifies you for a discounted price is total crap. So what about people who have bought properties to increase their 'Portfolio' of properties they then rent out privately. What would they say if the government made them sell to sitting tenants at a discount. You could here the cries of disapproval for miles around."

Disagree with you. I think the selling of Council houses to tenants was a good idea. Right to buy etc. But there again its all opinion and where your politics lie.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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The Tory Trafford council have recently boasted how 120 houses are being built by a private contractor of course as there are no skilled council workers left, what they failed to add that the rent for each property will be 1,100 per. month.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"The Tory Trafford council have recently boasted how 120 houses are being built by a private contractor of course as there are no skilled council workers left, what they failed to add that the rent for each property will be 1,100 per. month."

I wonder when the last time a house was built using purely council employees. Bet it is decades.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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I doubt many councils have employed full-time builders for a good many years. Even 'renovations' on council property are farmed out to various independent firms. Councils waste money all the time. Our local council decided to put new kitchens in all its flats. The new kitchens were little better than the old ones and in some cases worse due to shoddy workmanship. Several tenant, who I know quite well, were quite upset by the disruption--- e.g. being left with no kitchen at all over the weekend--- and would rather have kept their old one. Surely such money could have gone towards building new houses and flats.

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By *eic2020  (M)  over a year ago

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So which aspect of right to buy was a good idea? Yes was good for those who bought a house at a big discount, but not for those who owned the houses - ie 'The Great British Tax Payer' who's taxes were given away to the few via a discount house price. I also did not receive notice that 'MY' taxes were going to subsidise the few.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"So which aspect of right to buy was a good idea? Yes was good for those who bought a house at a big discount, but not for those who owned the houses - ie 'The Great British Tax Payer' who's taxes were given away to the few via a discount house price. I also did not receive notice that 'MY' taxes were going to subsidise the few."

I would say most of it. There is an estate of now mostly former council houses near where I live, and because of right to buy there are half decent people living in them instead of scummy council house tenants who don't give a toss about anything.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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My Parents were " scummy council house tennants" except we ,our estate looked after our homes, we kept them tidy front lawns mowed, we were a community, in that we all knew each other, us kids grew up with respect for each others homes unlike so many people who do not have any respect, or most likely can't even spell it! what went wrong was that when a property was sold the money was not invested in building replacement social Housing, councils were banned from spending their now bulging reserves on replacement housing stock, so Social housing became a get rich quick toy for private landlords,who charged sky high rents, paid for by councils, for low quality housing , so Councils instead of being able to invest its own money back are instead paying private landords and the flow is one way, at least with social landlords, the money they get in rents does tend to be re invested in more housing stock, not in someones pension pot,

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"So which aspect of right to buy was a good idea? Yes was good for those who bought a house at a big discount, but not for those who owned the houses - ie 'The Great British Tax Payer' who's taxes were given away to the few via a discount house price. I also did not receive notice that 'MY' taxes were going to subsidise the few.

I would say most of it. There is an estate of now mostly former council houses near where I live, and because of right to buy there are half decent people living in them instead of scummy council house tenants who don't give a toss about anything."

Just like to say, as a tenant living in a property rented from a housing association, i find your stereotypical comment quite offensive!

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"So which aspect of right to buy was a good idea? Yes was good for those who bought a house at a big discount, but not for those who owned the houses - ie 'The Great British Tax Payer' who's taxes were given away to the few via a discount house price. I also did not receive notice that 'MY' taxes were going to subsidise the few.

I would say most of it. There is an estate of now mostly former council houses near where I live, and because of right to buy there are half decent people living in them instead of scummy council house tenants who don't give a toss about anything.

Just like to say, as a tenant living in a property rented from a housing association, i find your stereotypical comment quite offensive!"

I don't live in such a place, but totally agree with you. A disgusting comment.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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"So which aspect of right to buy was a good idea? Yes was good for those who bought a house at a big discount, but not for those who owned the houses - ie 'The Great British Tax Payer' who's taxes were given away to the few via a discount house price. I also did not receive notice that 'MY' taxes were going to subsidise the few.

I would say most of it. There is an estate of now mostly former council houses near where I live, and because of right to buy there are half decent people living in them instead of scummy council house tenants who don't give a toss about anything.

Just like to say, as a tenant living in a property rented from a housing association, i find your stereotypical comment quite offensive!"

There is no quite about it, it is offensive, like you i happen to have a housing association home and i take offence personally that i am refered to as scum,

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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I'd also add, i have the ability to show care, pride and respect to my home and it's surroundings.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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I would take no notice of the remark as it shows a total ignorance of reality. Instead feel sorry for the writer that they are so cocooned in their own environment they have not the ability to see beyond and recognise the likes of community spirit, caring and sharing. It is their loss not ours.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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We may protest all we like about the merits various of council house tenants, but there is a reason why houses on a council estate, when put on the open market, are far, far cheaper than private houses of a similar type. That reason being, that a small percentage of tenants will never be your "ideal neighbour", and the unrest they cause to the majority is massive compared to their actual minority. There is no denying that fact. maybe on the smaller estates its not quite so prevalent, but most large estates have their "dodgy" areas where you wouldn't want to park your car.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"We may protest all we like about the merits various of council house tenants, but there is a reason why houses on a council estate, when put on the open market, are far, far cheaper than private houses of a similar type. That reason being, that a small percentage of tenants will never be your "ideal neighbour", and the unrest they cause to the majority is massive compared to their actual minority. There is no denying that fact. maybe on the smaller estates its not quite so prevalent, but most large estates have their "dodgy" areas where you wouldn't want to park your car."

Utter tripe. There are very similar circumstances on non council/housing association estates. Take for example houses bought through the proceeds of crime. Are you saying that if you live on some 'posh' estate and you get a drug dealer as your neighbour that is perfect? In addition I would have thought that there are more cars stolen from private estates. Your car theft is your assumption and nothing else.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Utter tripe. There are very similar circumstances on non council/housing association estates. Take for example houses bought through the proceeds of crime. Are you saying that if you live on some 'posh' estate and you get a drug dealer as your neighbour that is perfect? In addition I would have thought that there are more cars stolen from private estates. Your car theft is your assumption and nothing else.

Have to say i agree, and unless you spend your free time travelling the length and breadth of the country solely to carry out a detailed study of council estates against private estates, derogitory comments aimed at council tenants and their behaviour are unfounded, unwarented and uncalled for.

now perhaps we can all get back to the original topic of the question first asked, pros and cons of selling social housing.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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You can't generalise. Yes there are some very rough council estates but there are also some very well kept ones. As in all walks of life some like to live in a hovel whereas others like things to be pristine.

Same goes for private housing. I was looking at property to buy back in the Autumn. I arrived at one place and got out of the car to inspect the neighbourhood prior to the agent coming to show me round. I was greeted by a cacophony of yapping dogs and kids screaming. Also a row between a father [presumably] and his son [probably around 19 years of age] which was liberally sprinkled with four lettered words. Lovely house, top end of my budget but first impressions put me off. I was put off another as the garden of a house, two door away, looked like a scrapyard.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"We may protest all we like about the merits various of council house tenants, but there is a reason why houses on a council estate, when put on the open market, are far, far cheaper than private houses of a similar type. That reason being, that a small percentage of tenants will never be your "ideal neighbour", and the unrest they cause to the majority is massive compared to their actual minority. There is no denying that fact. maybe on the smaller estates its not quite so prevalent, but most large estates have their "dodgy" areas where you wouldn't want to park your car.

Utter tripe. There are very similar circumstances on non council/housing association estates. Take for example houses bought through the proceeds of crime. Are you saying that if you live on some 'posh' estate and you get a drug dealer as your neighbour that is perfect? In addition I would have thought that there are more cars stolen from private estates. Your car theft is your assumption and nothing else. "

You are ASSUMING I inferred car theft. It was car damage I was inferring, and how you can deny the rest of my post is beyond me, unless of course, you have pretty painted picket fences around all your council houses, with immaculate front gardens and parades of pristine shops with beautiful window displays, and polite children only too happy to courteously pass the time of day .... out of school hours, of course. .....

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Well that answers the question why successive governments sell off social housing then, it's an effort to wipe out crime and anti-social behaviour, no council estates = no council tenants = no problems.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"We may protest all we like about the merits various of council house tenants, but there is a reason why houses on a council estate, when put on the open market, are far, far cheaper than private houses of a similar type. That reason being, that a small percentage of tenants will never be your "ideal neighbour", and the unrest they cause to the majority is massive compared to their actual minority. There is no denying that fact. maybe on the smaller estates its not quite so prevalent, but most large estates have their "dodgy" areas where you wouldn't want to park your car.

Utter tripe. There are very similar circumstances on non council/housing association estates. Take for example houses bought through the proceeds of crime. Are you saying that if you live on some 'posh' estate and you get a drug dealer as your neighbour that is perfect? In addition I would have thought that there are more cars stolen from private estates. Your car theft is your assumption and nothing else.

You are ASSUMING I inferred car theft. It was car damage I was inferring, and how you can deny the rest of my post is beyond me, unless of course, you have pretty painted picket fences around all your council houses, with immaculate front gardens and parades of pristine shops with beautiful window displays, and polite children only too happy to courteously pass the time of day .... out of school hours, of course. ..... "

As has been pointed out you don’t always get that on any estate mate. Luck of the draw in many cases. Perhaps children would be more inclined o acknowledge you if maybe you acknowledged them.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"We may protest all we like about the merits various of council house tenants, but there is a reason why houses on a council estate, when put on the open market, are far, far cheaper than private houses of a similar type. That reason being, that a small percentage of tenants will never be your "ideal neighbour", and the unrest they cause to the majority is massive compared to their actual minority. There is no denying that fact. maybe on the smaller estates its not quite so prevalent, but most large estates have their "dodgy" areas where you wouldn't want to park your car.

Utter tripe. There are very similar circumstances on non council/housing association estates. Take for example houses bought through the proceeds of crime. Are you saying that if you live on some 'posh' estate and you get a drug dealer as your neighbour that is perfect? In addition I would have thought that there are more cars stolen from private estates. Your car theft is your assumption and nothing else.

You are ASSUMING I inferred car theft. It was car damage I was inferring, and how you can deny the rest of my post is beyond me, unless of course, you have pretty painted picket fences around all your council houses, with immaculate front gardens and parades of pristine shops with beautiful window displays, and polite children only too happy to courteously pass the time of day .... out of school hours, of course. .....

As has been pointed out you don’t always get that on any estate mate. Luck of the draw in many cases. Perhaps children would be more inclined o acknowledge you if maybe you acknowledged them. "

Methinks you are in denial..... the scenarios I outline are far too common to be considered "isolated cases". If nothing else, common sense will tell you that there will always be a percentage of people who have no consideration for other people or other people's property, including the housing they occupy. I have properties in both the south and north of England, all at the cheaper end of their respective markets, but there is no way I would buy anything on a large council estate, it'd be asking for trouble ...... plus of course, the rent would be pitiful ...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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Well thanks for that. At least we know know what you stand for.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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So where do children get these behaviours from? from their parents? from society at large, see if you live in a society that despises you are you not going to repay them in kind? Yes in my day, there was sink hole estates, the council had its own form of ethnic cleansing , good families who paid their rent, looked after their homes were given places on the better estates, problem families stayed where their parents grew up,so i guess we were snobs, council snobs, of course you can't do that now, but with the problem families you saw it generation after generation, same problems, same out come , men folk in prison half the time

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"You can't generalise. Yes there are some very rough council estates but there are also some very well kept ones. As in all walks of life some like to live in a hovel whereas others like things to be pristine.

Same goes for private housing. I was looking at property to buy back in the Autumn. I arrived at one place and got out of the car to inspect the neighbourhood prior to the agent coming to show me round. I was greeted by a cacophony of yapping dogs and kids screaming. Also a row between a father [presumably] and his son [probably around 19 years of age] which was liberally sprinkled with four lettered words. Lovely house, top end of my budget but first impressions put me off. I was put off another as the garden of a house, two door away, looked like a scrapyard."

A correction in my above post. The child was about 9 or 10 years of age, not 19.

Children's behavior cannot necessarily be defined by the houses or estates they live in. The above mentioned foul-mouthed child was living in a very affluent area. I've visited council estates where the children are extremely polite and well behaved.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"You can't generalise. Yes there are some very rough council estates but there are also some very well kept ones. As in all walks of life some like to live in a hovel whereas others like things to be pristine.

Same goes for private housing. I was looking at property to buy back in the Autumn. I arrived at one place and got out of the car to inspect the neighbourhood prior to the agent coming to show me round. I was greeted by a cacophony of yapping dogs and kids screaming. Also a row between a father [presumably] and his son [probably around 19 years of age] which was liberally sprinkled with four lettered words. Lovely house, top end of my budget but first impressions put me off. I was put off another as the garden of a house, two door away, looked like a scrapyard."

This I totally agree with. There are some great council and ex council estates. Equallw there are private estates with run down houses. It's all about the person living there, not their class.

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By *uke-inforu  (M)  over a year ago

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A lot of villages have small council house estates. Perhaps just a cul-de-sac of 20 or 30 houses. These are usually well maintained by the families who live there and have tidy and productive gardens. These council tenants integrate with the rest of the villages and are invariably regarded as being just the same as the rest of the villagers.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"A lot of villages have small council house estates. Perhaps just a cul-de-sac of 20 or 30 houses. These are usually well maintained by the families who live there and have tidy and productive gardens. These council tenants integrate with the rest of the villages and are invariably regarded as being just the same as the rest of the villagers."

Exactly at last someone with some sense.

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future. "

Get it in trust now before its sold to pay for your health care

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"You can't generalise. Yes there are some very rough council estates but there are also some very well kept ones. As in all walks of life some like to live in a hovel whereas others like things to be pristine.

Same goes for private housing. I was looking at property to buy back in the Autumn. I arrived at one place and got out of the car to inspect the neighbourhood prior to the agent coming to show me round. I was greeted by a cacophony of yapping dogs and kids screaming. Also a row between a father [presumably] and his son [probably around 19 years of age] which was liberally sprinkled with four lettered words. Lovely house, top end of my budget but first impressions put me off. I was put off another as the garden of a house, two door away, looked like a scrapyard.

This I totally agree with. There are some great council and ex council estates. Equallw there are private estates with run down houses. It's all about the person living there, not their class. "

There's a saying that sums some of those folk perfectly - "You can put pigs in palaces, but they'll still be pigs" What makes it worse is that people like that are invariably proud of what they are.

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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Hahaha, I became the "Outright owner" in Feb 1994, and what you mention was all sorted and signed before the end of March 1994. I've got more oil in my lamp than to let the possibility of some slik chik with a wig and no dick or wanker banker swoop down like a vulture for the easy pickings.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Hahaha, I became the "Outright owner" in Feb 1994, and what you mention was all sorted and signed before the end of March 1994. I've got more oil in my lamp than to let the possibility of some slik chik with a wig and no dick or wanker banker swoop down like a vulture for the easy pickings. "

Wow you were clever putting it in trust when you were 30 years old.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future. "

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?"

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

"

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years."

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone. "

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way."

Maybe.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way.

Maybe."

Bit unfair to make assumptions then, don't you think?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way.

Maybe.

Bit unfair to make assumptions then, don't you think?"

No

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way.

Maybe.

Bit unfair to make assumptions then, don't you think?

No "

And you accuse others of being nasty......pot and kettle spring to mind

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years.

Yes I hope he will live on and on also. Perhaps he would have been better off not picking up on it and like everyone else leaving it alone.

Maybe he was showing concern about what may have been meant in a caring way.

Maybe.

Bit unfair to make assumptions then, don't you think?

No

And you accuse others of being nasty......pot and kettle spring to mind "

Yes

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By *ottagingOfficial   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

"

It looked like a question to me, I was wondering the same thing, I am not sure how that isn't nice

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"Guess I was lucky, I bought my house from the N.C.B as was £3025, took it on an endownment mortgage and got double back when the policy matured 10 years later, now valued at over 100K I have somet to leave my kids when I peg out - hopefully in the not too distant future.

Why "hopefully in the not too distant future"?

Are you being serious? Everyone else clearly understood what he meant. You lecture people on here about not being nice then make a comment like that.

Oh come off it. He wasn't being nasty, Just picking up on a typing error--or at least what we hope was a typing error. Hopefully _hebestrimmer will be around for another 49 or 50 years."

I was really concerned about him. That's all it was.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

And you accuse others of being nasty......pot and kettle spring to mind

Yes"

It really is pointless even commenting on your post when you are just goading people.

For your own sake turn your attention to somebody else. In a battle of wits with me you are totally unarmed.

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By *ottagingOfficial   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Ok drop it now please

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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did anyone watch that program on tv home for £1 in liverpool, whats your thoughts, you have to live in the area though and have the funds to renovate what are derelict shells, the problem is its in a high crime area, and that may put a lot of people off, So would that be one way to provide first time buyers with a home? can you renovate a what is derelict shell for less than what most mortgage providers would want as a deposit?

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By *uv4old  (M)  over a year ago

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"did anyone watch that program on tv home for £1 in liverpool, whats your thoughts, you have to live in the area though and have the funds to renovate what are derelict shells, the problem is its in a high crime area, and that may put a lot of people off, So would that be one way to provide first time buyers with a home? can you renovate a what is derelict shell for less than what most mortgage providers would want as a deposit? "

They were estimating around £35,000 to make the houses habitable. So they get a home for £35,001. A great opportunity for the people featured, and because it involves an entire street, everyone moving in is in the same situation so a good chance of building some community spirit between neighbours. I hope they do a follow up programme after everyone is living there. I can't help feeling that some will be taking advantage of it to make a profit, even though they were vetted and commit to staying there for a period of time. There might be some bad feeling from neighbouring streets fuelled by jealousy, but I can only imagine that it is a good thing for the surrounding area. Better than having decrepit properties standing empty, and the people involved seemed decent enough. At least they were working for a living, except for the student whose dad was backing her financially. Can't help feeling her house will be the first to go on the market for a nice profit once the time limit is up....

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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I didn't watch that programme about £1 houses but it brought back memories of a similar scheme. A few years ago there was a whole terrace of derelict houses for sale, somewhere in Greater Manchester, for offers in the region of £10,000. A friend and I went to have a look. You could only view the downstairs and then with a hard hat. Walls solid enough but everything else would have had to go. A nice idea but we decided it would be far too expensive to renovate them.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"I didn't watch that programme about £1 houses but it brought back memories of a similar scheme. A few years ago there was a whole terrace of derelict houses for sale, somewhere in Greater Manchester, for offers in the region of £10,000. A friend and I went to have a look. You could only view the downstairs and then with a hard hat. Walls solid enough but everything else would have had to go. A nice idea but we decided it would be far too expensive to renovate them."

We paid a lot more to buy the houses. Fantastic financial management by our council.

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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Because mate am no 1/2 crippled with spinal problems, I aint got any desire to become a burden to my kids, and being 100% honest I dont give a toss about being in this world any longer than I have to be. No, I am not depressed, suicidal or anything, I've had a bloody good life and the ife am used to is rapidly coming to an end so am better off "Roger & Out"

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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if they hadn't sold them off we would still be short off housing

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*avid93111 By *avid93111  (M)  over a year ago

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Shortage of oh why is that. ? Could it maybe because there are millions more people living here now, and more coming every year, overcrowded schools oh really wonder why? NHS under immense pressure oh wonder why? Every body knows the problems and why they exist, bt my god they dare not say why.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Shortage of oh why is that. ? Could it maybe because there are millions more people living here now, and more coming every year, overcrowded schools oh really wonder why? NHS under immense pressure oh wonder why? Every body knows the problems and why they exist, bt my god they dare not say why."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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well said dave , its the polititions that dont know why

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By *hebestrimmer  (M)  over a year ago

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they do know why, and its them wankers that are allowing it to happen.

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By  *H23    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Shortage of oh why is that. ? Could it maybe because there are millions more people living here now, and more coming every year, overcrowded schools oh really wonder why? NHS under immense pressure oh wonder why? Every body knows the problems and why they exist, bt my god they dare not say why."

Is it because of immigration?

Probably has something to do with it, although they keep our cheap restaurants going, and the backbone of our NHS, never mind the social care that look after our elderly, and any other “menial” job that’s just too low for the modern Brit, for the minimum wage that nobody can survive on alone. To give them housing is too much.

That’s why we build bridges, for them to live under??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society

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By *uv4old  (M)  over a year ago

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"well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society "

What rubbish. ' The vast majority' ? Well yes, there is a lot of very useful immigrant workers in important industries. Of course, these are the ones who are always highlighted in any discussion on immigration. What a lovely picture that paints of the situation. Try coming to visit the northern towns where the real 'vast majority' have settled. Most are unskilled and cannot speak English. How can that add to society? It is frankly ludicrous to say that the countries resources are not being stretched to breaking point because of unchecked immigration. How can it not have an effect on housing, the health services, the education system and the benefits system?

I'm sure it is all hunky dory in your comfortable southern towns and cities where the only immigrants you see are business owners or professionals.

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*avid93111 By *avid93111  (M)  over a year ago

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well said , totally agree, we,re always told how good the imigrunts are , and some are doing a good job, but millions have come here in the last 20 yrs, we should adopt the Aussie way , dont let em in!!!!!!!, We arefull up

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society

What rubbish. ' The vast majority' ? Well yes, there is a lot of very useful immigrant workers in important industries. Of course, these are the ones who are always highlighted in any discussion on immigration. What a lovely picture that paints of the situation. Try coming to visit the northern towns where the real 'vast majority' have settled. Most are unskilled and cannot speak English. How can that add to society? It is frankly ludicrous to say that the countries resources are not being stretched to breaking point because of unchecked immigration. How can it not have an effect on housing, the health services, the education system and the benefits system?

I'm sure it is all hunky dory in your comfortable southern towns and cities where the only immigrants you see are business owners or professionals. "

Like the East End of London you mean places such as Tower Hamlets where the Road signs are written in English and Bangladeshi cos it's easier to do that than teach English.

I might add I spent a few years living in the North East where immigrants seemed few and far between and where just as hard working as the next man.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society "

Add to society????? Which fluffy little make believe world do you live in??? We talk about integration in this country .... the biggest culprits for NON integration, are Muslim immigrants. Sikhs? .... no problem, Hindus? ... no problem, Eastern Europeans? .... no problem, they're all only too willing to join in, but nobody else maintains ghettos like the Muslims do. They're fine up to the age of about 16/17, then marriage expectations and family tradition drags them back into the dark ages.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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"well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society

Add to society????? Which fluffy little make believe world do you live in??? We talk about integration in this country .... the biggest culprits for NON integration, are Muslim immigrants. Sikhs? .... no problem, Hindus? ... no problem, Eastern Europeans? .... no problem, they're all only too willing to join in, but nobody else maintains ghettos like the Muslims do. They're fine up to the age of about 16/17, then marriage expectations and family tradition drags them back into the dark ages."

We will have to hope then, that the next generations start to shake off the old ways, i would think that a young Muslim Brit would say no, i dont want to marry my cousin, who i have never met, i have a girlfriend , as with all religions it will one day be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern era.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"well said BH23 the vast majority of immigrants are extremely important to the survival of the country

we always need to have people who want to work hard and add to society

Add to society????? Which fluffy little make believe world do you live in??? We talk about integration in this country .... the biggest culprits for NON integration, are Muslim immigrants. Sikhs? .... no problem, Hindus? ... no problem, Eastern Europeans? .... no problem, they're all only too willing to join in, but nobody else maintains ghettos like the Muslims do. They're fine up to the age of about 16/17, then marriage expectations and family tradition drags them back into the dark ages."

Hate to say it but I'm inclined to agree with Mr C on this one. One of my biggest concerns is that we are over-populated as it is. We do not have the resourses or infrastructure to cope, and it is very sad to see more and more of England's [Britain's] green and pleasant land being concreted over to provide more housing.

If under Brexit [sorry to mention the dreaded subject] we were to send all the hard working East Europeans packing then I think we would find a big hole in our labour force. I'm dead against the economic immigrants from outside Europe as all they seem to do is take rather than give. Also concerned about the Adherents of Islam who wont integrate and want to impose their outdated laws upon us.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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It's an amazing thing to watch, the ability of humans to turn our attention away from any threat as soon as the next one appears on our horizons. Just a couple of years ago it was the "terrible threat" of uncontrolled Albanians and Romanians overrunning our green and pleasant land.

Throughout the last century, since global travel became commonplace, our society (and most other western societies) have always had a seeming threat from outsiders. Save for migration to places such as the Americas there wasn't much movement of people, it was more invade and conquer (or transport criminals to in the case of Australia).

Even if we just start with the hatred against the Irish in the 19th century we can trace the history of antagonism against immigrants. I've a suspicion we would have less of a problem today if we had just stayed home back in the days of Empire, and not gone about running roughshod over other parts of the world. For a start we would not have been redrawing the maps of the Middle East after WW1 and creating a situation that has plagued the entire world ever since. Cecil Rhodes would not have been redrawing the historic tribal areas of Africa into countries, in a way that has been a large part of many of the myriad conflicts that have broken out ever since.

Empires always suffer due the the thoughtless misdeeds carried out in their ascendancy. As we are now destined to become little more than a backwater in the global scheme of things the younger ones of us have the opportunity of watching the same happen to America as that evil empire wanes.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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Although it is getting right off subject I have often wondered what the World would be like if we, and our European neighbours, have not gone empire building in Africa, Asia and the Middle-East. Perhaps we'd be better off and perhaps they'd be better off. Who knows. Interesting point nevertheless.

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*ral4cutguys By *ral4cutguys  (M)  over a year ago

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Fine arguments and many subjects that will be debated until 'the cows come home' or 'hell freezes over'.

Let's face it - man is a greedy and avaricious creature who is little changed over the centuries of our existence on this planet.

We covet what others have and strive to get those things by any means, be it land or commodities. We stir up hatred against other races and creeds because it serves our interest to do so in achieving our goals. Look no further than the dictators throughout history. We are no better on an individual level. In the home, the workplace or in the country.

Governments know this and divert our attention away from their own shortcomings, to blame other factions, be it racial / ethnic groups / other countries actions, and should that fail, then set up a Special Commission to look into the problem. The special Commission report can be delayed, debated or not even published (in the public's own interest of course) but the goal to divert any need for action is maintained. Lovely extra income for the Commission members - drawn from other quangos - but all decent chaps of 'the right sort'.

Accusations of cynicism, on a postcard please !!!

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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Call me a cynic if you wish but have you got shares in a postcard business, and looking to boost the price?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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I'm just wondering if we should send a plain postcard or one of those 'Welcome to Cleethorpes' type of postcard?

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*ral4cutguys By *ral4cutguys  (M)  over a year ago

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Drat - you spotted my ploy - have to find another way to get rid of all these postcards !!!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Drat - you spotted my ploy - have to find another way to get rid of all these postcards !!!"

A House of Cards. That should help with the housing shortage

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By *havedchris  (M)  over a year ago

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plenty of houses just too many people

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Liverpool has thousands of empty houses, all boarded up because there isn't the money to renovate them.

These properties would go a long way in solving the crisis here. They were obtained by CPO's and cost quite a bit. Then the funding was axed so redevelopment was shelved.

I think the council should be able to go into partnership with building companies, to complete the work. Payment could be made after the sale of them.

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By *illanihole  (M)  over a year ago

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Perfectly good idea from you Scousepw but no self respecting builder would wait a year to be paid!

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"Perfectly good idea from you Scousepw but no self respecting builder would wait a year to be paid!"

To refurbish houses would take much less than a year.

If they were demolished and rebuilt, they might. However, there are many companies that buy land and sell after the completion.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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Thing is what should be the purpose of social housing, should it be to make a profit from people or to give those in need a roof over their heads? for instance, if a council owned the house they are receiving rent for, its re invested to either buy further stock, or to improove other houses, where in private houses, its a pension scheme when they sell it, we need to get awat from this " private =good, Public = bad" mind set, that has gained root here since the 1970's private does not always mean good.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Thing is what should be the purpose of social housing, should it be to make a profit from people or to give those in need a roof over their heads? for instance, if a council owned the house they are receiving rent for, its re invested to either buy further stock, or to improove other houses, where in private houses, its a pension scheme when they sell it, we need to get awat from this " private =good, Public = bad" mind set, that has gained root here since the 1970's private does not always mean good. "

The major reason so many people have turned to property for investment is because it gives a return on investment unlike the banks due to interest rates being so low. While private does not always mean good there are many landlords out there in the private sector who provide excellent accommodation meaning private often does mean good and also there are far more opportunities in private housing than there are in the public sector.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

The major reason so many people have turned to property for investment is because it gives a return on investment unlike the banks due to interest rates being so low. While private does not always mean good there are many landlords out there in the private sector who provide excellent accommodation meaning private often does mean good and also there are far more opportunities in private housing than there are in the public sector. "

It's true that people see that renting a property will give a better return on their investment.

I have also noticed that lots of private landlords want tennants who don't claim housing benefit, and others target the increased student market. Both of these reduce the homes available to the less well off.

I'm sure that places, similar to my own city, have seen student numbers increase dramaticly in recent years. This is a huge drain on the housing market.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"

The major reason so many people have turned to property for investment is because it gives a return on investment unlike the banks due to interest rates being so low. While private does not always mean good there are many landlords out there in the private sector who provide excellent accommodation meaning private often does mean good and also there are far more opportunities in private housing than there are in the public sector.

It's true that people see that renting a property will give a better return on their investment.

I have also noticed that lots of private landlords want tennants who don't claim housing benefit, and others target the increased student market. Both of these reduce the homes available to the less well off.

I'm sure that places, similar to my own city, have seen student numbers increase dramaticly in recent years. This is a huge drain on the housing market."

At the end of the day people want a return on their investment so if they target a particular market they do so for a reason.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

The major reason so many people have turned to property for investment is because it gives a return on investment unlike the banks due to interest rates being so low. While private does not always mean good there are many landlords out there in the private sector who provide excellent accommodation meaning private often does mean good and also there are far more opportunities in private housing than there are in the public sector.

It's true that people see that renting a property will give a better return on their investment.

I have also noticed that lots of private landlords want tennants who don't claim housing benefit, and others target the increased student market. Both of these reduce the homes available to the less well off.

I'm sure that places, similar to my own city, have seen student numbers increase dramaticly in recent years. This is a huge drain on the housing market.

At the end of the day people want a return on their investment so if they target a particular market they do so for a reason. "

I agree, but the thread is about Social Housing and the shortage of affordable homes.

I'm not knocking people that want a return on their investment. I'd probably want the same thing, if I was thinking about my future.

In Victorian times, there were a lot of philanthropists, who tried to help the less fortunate.

Now everything is left to the state. The mega rich will tarpet a specific area to help, but nobody seems to target social housing.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"

The major reason so many people have turned to property for investment is because it gives a return on investment unlike the banks due to interest rates being so low. While private does not always mean good there are many landlords out there in the private sector who provide excellent accommodation meaning private often does mean good and also there are far more opportunities in private housing than there are in the public sector.

It's true that people see that renting a property will give a better return on their investment.

I have also noticed that lots of private landlords want tennants who don't claim housing benefit, and others target the increased student market. Both of these reduce the homes available to the less well off.

I'm sure that places, similar to my own city, have seen student numbers increase dramaticly in recent years. This is a huge drain on the housing market.

At the end of the day people want a return on their investment so if they target a particular market they do so for a reason.

I agree, but the thread is about Social Housing and the shortage of affordable homes.

I'm not knocking people that want a return on their investment. I'd probably want the same thing, if I was thinking about my future.

In Victorian times, there were a lot of philanthropists, who tried to help the less fortunate.

Now everything is left to the state. The mega rich will tarpet a specific area to help, but nobody seems to target social housing."

It is only the government who will throw money at social housing not private investors.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"

I agree, but the thread is about Social Housing and the shortage of affordable homes.

I'm not knocking people that want a return on their investment. I'd probably want the same thing, if I was thinking about my future.

In Victorian times, there were a lot of philanthropists, who tried to help the less fortunate.

Now everything is left to the state. The mega rich will tarpet a specific area to help, but nobody seems to target social housing.

It is only the government who will throw money at social housing not private investors. "

Not strictly true, although they are in the minority. I work for a family that own hundreds of homes, and they actually target the less well off. They even own a number of hostels, for homeless people. Although it's not really for altruistism. There were good tax breaks that are coming to an end, so whether they will continue is anyones guess.

The properties that they buy are all at the low end of the market, and the refurb is good but basic. The rents they charge are easily below the housing benefit threshold, and are snapped up as soon as they are available.

The % return is good even though the amount per property is small.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"

I agree, but the thread is about Social Housing and the shortage of affordable homes.

I'm not knocking people that want a return on their investment. I'd probably want the same thing, if I was thinking about my future.

In Victorian times, there were a lot of philanthropists, who tried to help the less fortunate.

Now everything is left to the state. The mega rich will tarpet a specific area to help, but nobody seems to target social housing.

It is only the government who will throw money at social housing not private investors.

Not strictly true, although they are in the minority. I work for a family that own hundreds of homes, and they actually target the less well off. They even own a number of hostels, for homeless people. Although it's not really for altruistism. There were good tax breaks that are coming to an end, so whether they will continue is anyones guess.

The properties that they buy are all at the low end of the market, and the refurb is good but basic. The rents they charge are easily below the housing benefit threshold, and are snapped up as soon as they are available.

The % return is good even though the amount per property is small."

Thwts nice.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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All this bleeding heart garbage!!!! ..... whats wrong with good old fashioned Rachmanism????? .... he provided loads of "homes" ....

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"All this bleeding heart garbage!!!! ..... whats wrong with good old fashioned Rachmanism????? .... he provided loads of "homes" .... "

Some time ago,on another thread on this very site, I happened to mention that I own a couple of houses which I let at a very reasonable rent. Someone immediately called me a 'Rachman' which I found highly amusing.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"All this bleeding heart garbage!!!! ..... whats wrong with good old fashioned Rachmanism????? .... he provided loads of "homes" .... Some time ago,on another thread on this very site, I happened to mention that I own a couple of houses which I let at a very reasonable rent. Someone immediately called me a 'Rachman' which I found highly amusing."

I think it’s really difficult to get across to some that not all private landlords are dreadful individuals providing terrible accommodation at extortionate rents. Some tenants end up being nightmares with non payments and leaving dirty wrecked accommodation and the landlord having to pick up the tab.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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thats very true, there are some very good private landlords who do look after their tenants,as i see it a good tenant will look after their home, it may be someone elses house, but its their home, i used to rent privatly and got on very well with my landlord, but he was very pro active and treated me right, because i took very good care of where i was staying, other tenants were not so good,mostly because i took pride in where i lived, so i know not to tar all landlords with the same brush, but on the flip side i did stay for a very short time in a place where the owner didnt care all he wanted was the money, and he never did any repairs i moved out as soon as i could to a better place. but i didnt trash it, or anything like that, i didnt need to he did that him self

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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I have to hold my hands up ...... I'm a landlord, albeit on a relatively minor scale. I have 8 student flats in Headingly, Leeds. These provide the bare minimum, but are redecorated every summer irrespective of their condition. 17 years experience has told me to offer the bare minimum and charge the maximum to students, that way you're buffered, to an extent, against the absolute shit states that many of the flats are left in. I also have 4 houses on the south coast which I rent out. These are the opposite to the student lets, they're very well equipped and maintained, and to date, over a 12 year timescale, I've only once had to use the courts as a last resort. Recipients of housing benefit have always been welcome, they have never given me a problem ........ touch wood!! ..

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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One of the very few good things to come from this recent period of xenophobia, nationalism, and bigotry that is sweeping through the country is that people feel it is now acceptable to voice the things they have always kept hidden. Why do I think it is a good thing? Because now I know who to avoid, and who the people are that I have no wish to associate with.

Unfortunately there are sometimes occasions when one finds that some of ones own relatives are similarly vile under the skin. Hasn't happened to me yet but I know of situations where it has.

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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I always find it hard to judge this stuff. If that is jonjj's sensible conclusion from real life experience, and it may well be so, then I cant argue with it. Don't care if its pc or not just whether its based on actual fact.

If you import any foreign population in sufficient mass for them to retain a separate culture then they will naturally keep the bad as well as the welcome bits. Pakistan's politics sucks which did contribute to election fraud scandals in the north here.

Ever seen large resident groups of ex-pat Brits overseas? I have.

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By *ewcocol  (M)  over a year ago

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Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home. "

Real problem in tourist areas then.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home.

Real problem in tourist areas then. "

In my experience, it tends to depend on the actual resorts as to the type of British behaviour you encounter. Cheap package holidays, club 18-30 type things, cheaper end of the all inclusive market ..... avoid all these like the plague if you possibly can. Worst place I have experienced "Britabroad Behaviour"? Disneyworld, Florida. Although it was quite a while back, I can still remember the state of the average Brit families ...... they made the yanks look sophisticated, which is quite difficult to do ..

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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"Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home. "

The other example of 'Brits Abroad' are those that have moved there and set up their own little enclave/colony/ghetto. Accompanied and elderly friend to visit his son's place near Alicante. The ex-pat group there were awful. Made no attempt to integrate, expected the locals to speak English to them and treated the Spanish like 2nd class citizens. The Raj all over again.

Slightly better experience in France in what has been dubbed Dordogne-shire. No real attempts to integrate or learn the language.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home.

The other example of 'Brits Abroad' are those that have moved there and set up their own little enclave/colony/ghetto. Accompanied and elderly friend to visit his son's place near Alicante. The ex-pat group there were awful. Made no attempt to integrate, expected the locals to speak English to them and treated the Spanish like 2nd class citizens. The Raj all over again.

Slightly better experience in France in what has been dubbed Dordogne-shire. No real attempts to integrate or learn the language."

Exactly and then we moan about immigrants over here!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Rule of thumb that has served me well over the years, if you see British people abroad avoid at all costs. They can often be even worse than when at home.

The other example of 'Brits Abroad' are those that have moved there and set up their own little enclave/colony/ghetto. Accompanied and elderly friend to visit his son's place near Alicante. The ex-pat group there were awful. Made no attempt to integrate, expected the locals to speak English to them and treated the Spanish like 2nd class citizens. The Raj all over again.

Slightly better experience in France in what has been dubbed Dordogne-shire. No real attempts to integrate or learn the language.

Exactly and then we moan about immigrants over here!!!!!"

Good point. Perhaps the problem lies with peoples perceptions and tolerances.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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Meanwhile, Social housing?

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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Why? This is a good thread. Its like a conversation, it drifts from one topic to another .... comfortable chat ...

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

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"Why? This is a good thread. Its like a conversation, it drifts from one topic to another .... comfortable chat ... "

Exactly.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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"Why? This is a good thread. Its like a conversation, it drifts from one topic to another .... comfortable chat ... "

Comfortable chat is for the lounge. Politics is for tearing each other limb from limb.

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"Why? This is a good thread. Its like a conversation, it drifts from one topic to another .... comfortable chat ...

Comfortable chat is for the lounge. Politics is for tearing each other limb from limb. "

No it is not. And anyway it is a healthy slight diversion from the original topic and in many ways very relevant.

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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I agree to a point, its about how we see people, and judge them on our own take on things, for example, say Social tenant, and what do you get a picture of ? single mum, with 8 kids by 8 different men, shouting her head off f'ing and B'ing, can of strong cider in hand, brits aboard, retiree tax dodger, possible one with an interesting past, yet a social tenant could just be a young family with a kid struggling to get by, an brit abroad could equally be your old granny, who finds it cheaper to live in Spain and happens to be a fluent Spanish speaker.

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By *aravaggio  (M)  over a year ago

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"

At least the Brits abroad live off their own money, not fleecing the benefits system dry with 12 kids in tow. Not to mention the fact they don't groom the local kids or try to blow them to bits."

That is certainly a valid point of view ..

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By *2014   profile verified by photo (M)  over a year ago

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By *ajor mistake  (M)  over a year ago

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I thought the posting of such openly anti Islamic

posts would be breaking the law, not just forum rules I quote " grooming local kids or trying to blow them up" this has to be inciting hatred and as such should be reported to the police sorry but there should be no place on any forum for holders of such views

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M)  over a year ago

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But my dear Major no one but you has mentioned Islam

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By *eic2020  (M)  over a year ago

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My original comments on here seem to have gone full circle and well away from my original point, which was why should someone who rents social housing be eligible after five years to buy the property at a massive discount. Especially as the houses were, in the first place built using tax payers money, partly my money as a long paying UK tax payer. I cannot for the life of me work out how this has become an entitlement for council house tenants. I see that Leicestershire County Council are in the process of building 80 plus new council houses near Coalville. Any new tenant will be able to buy them after 5 years, again with a massive discount. I wish someone would offer me an explanation as to how this is fair to other UK tax payers.

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By *aninwsm   profile verified by photo (TV/TS/CD)  over a year ago

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"My original comments on here seem to have gone full circle and well away from my original point, which was why should someone who rents social housing be eligible after five years to buy the property at a massive discount. Especially as the houses were, in the first place built using tax payers money, partly my money as a long paying UK tax payer. I cannot for the life of me work out how this has become an entitlement for council house tenants. I see that Leicestershire County Council are in the process of building 80 plus new council houses near Coalville. Any new tenant will be able to buy them after 5 years, again with a massive discount. I wish someone would offer me an explanation as to how this is fair to other UK tax payers. "

The majority of new social housing Tennant's are given a Flexible tenancy a policy brought in by Tory's to stop people from being eligible to buy the property. They are normally fixed terms 3 or 5 years and often extended so far early converted to secure tenancy agreements which are eligible to buy the property.

There are many accademic papers on why people can buy social housing, arguing both sides. Try York's center for housing policy I'm sure it will answer your questions.

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By *aninwsm   profile verified by photo (TV/TS/CD)  over a year ago

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That should read so far rarely converted not early! Auto correct..

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