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Is the Welfare State sustainable?

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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Or do we need to make radical changes?

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 15 weeks ago

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I don't think that it is currently sustainable. Either we need to put caps on entitlements or we need to pay a lot more into the system.

Whichever way, I don't think any Party has the balls to do anything constructive about it, so I suspect it will just keep staggering from crisis to crisis depending on where the money is sitting.

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By *ldbutbold   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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I do not know what is the criteria for job seekers these days.But when i was out of work in the `90s i had to attend a meeting with employers and if i turned down the job my benefits were taken away for 6 weeks.

it seems there are lots of jobs in the hotel trade going to EU citizens because our snowflakes cannot get up in the morning for a job as they seem to all want to be on reality TV.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"I do not know what is the criteria for job seekers these days.But when i was out of work in the `90s i had to attend a meeting with employers and if i turned down the job my benefits were taken away for 6 weeks.

it seems there are lots of jobs in the hotel trade going to EU citizens because our snowflakes cannot get up in the morning for a job as they seem to all want to be on reality TV."

Just going "off piste" for a moment (apologies Mr TW) but when I was a lad, we had tv that showed that you could have fun even though your job was mundane e.g. on the buses but nowadays all they seem to portray on telly is drama in the workplace. Maybe the "snowflakes" think that work is all drama and they're afraid of it.

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By *aked4u2   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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Well as we are all paying Taxes of one form or another then I'd say YES it is, Governments always seem to find money for Overseas Foreign Aid and I was always told 'Charity begins at home' !

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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"I do not know what is the criteria for job seekers these days.But when i was out of work in the `90s i had to attend a meeting with employers and if i turned down the job my benefits were taken away for 6 weeks.

it seems there are lots of jobs in the hotel trade going to EU citizens because our snowflakes cannot get up in the morning for a job as they seem to all want to be on reality TV.

Just going "off piste" for a moment (apologies Mr TW) but when I was a lad, we had tv that showed that you could have fun even though your job was mundane e.g. on the buses but nowadays all they seem to portray on telly is drama in the workplace. Maybe the "snowflakes" think that work is all drama and they're afraid of it."

.

There is a very high level of entitlement in today's society. They think it is a right to walk into a decent job without starting at the bottom, cycling to work and eating sandwiches and actually building their own lives. The right to demand doctors, nurses and ambulances on a whim (which you see every day in A&E). There are so many things provided by a welfare state which it was never designed for.

We need to find ways of cutting costs (without the inevitable crying from certain quarters for political gain)and find new ways of paying for it if we want to maintain the provisions. Even countries which we often see used as examples of good welfare, such as Sweden, are in the same boat now.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

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One of the major problems is that quite a large proportion of benefit receivers are 2nd or even 3rd generation receivers. They either see no point in working, or they're working in the black economy whilst still claiming benefit. How many women see that having 3 babies by 3 different non-present men as being a career move towards state upkeep for the foreseeable future. How many known terrorist sympathisers or preachers are on Benefit? Wasn't Anjem Choudary on something like £70K pa when you totalled it all up? When someone of that ilk gets away with so much for so long, there has to be a lot wrong with the system.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"One of the major problems is that quite a large proportion of benefit receivers are 2nd or even 3rd generation receivers. They either see no point in working, or they're working in the black economy whilst still claiming benefit. How many women see that having 3 babies by 3 different non-present men as being a career move towards state upkeep for the foreseeable future. How many known terrorist sympathisers or preachers are on Benefit? Wasn't Anjem Choudary on something like £70K pa when you totalled it all up? When someone of that ilk gets away with so much for so long, there has to be a lot wrong with the system."

the original intention was for it to be a safety net - now it's a hammock

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By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

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As Mr TW said, their is a high sense of unearned entitlement that has pervaded our society. People do not want to wait for things, they want it now. In fact many people fail to understand the basic premise that in order to achieve, you have to work and save.

There is no such thing as a progressive wage structure which is attached to a relevant skill set, any longer. When a plumber regularly earns the same as a medical consultant, something is wrong. When an underground train driver earns more than a university lecturer, there is something wrong. Unfortunately, there is no rhyme nor reason behind some of the wages being paid for what are, quite mundane jobs. Ask a kitchen fitter what he earns per annum, you'd be gobsmacked, and it explains why you can't get a chippie for love nor money, they're all fitting bloody kitchens!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

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I know, I know... their, there … stand down the spelling and grammar police!

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"I know, I know... their, there … stand down the spelling and grammar police!"

too late, we have satellite lock on you

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By *iman60  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"

the original intention was for it to be a safety net - now it's a hammock "

No thats the most sensible and correct statement I have read on here for quite a while.

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By *orum reader   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

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The largest proportion of the welfare bill is made up of pensions

a Dr or nurse is paid for from the NHS not the welfare budget

We gave more people living into old age than ever before so overall the country needs to increase its tax take

Or reduce the number if claimants

Maybe we should introduce euthanasia for all pensioners and the disabled but wow betied anyone gets older or injured

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By *orum reader   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

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A slightly more sensible solution might be to put a time restriction on receiving unemployment benefit

The disabled are already made to endure medical after medical

We could also stop wasting money repeating medical for pip,universal credit etc and reduce the money paid to maxima ( atos and capita) who made £26 million profit from testing people even though they have never achieved a satisfactory mark for the quality of the medical carried out

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By *aked4u2   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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Has anyone else noticed that we never seem to hear of any politicians singing the praises of the population living longer. Maybe they have suddenly realise that they may be a burden now we are no longer working and paying into the System but finally drawing out of it ?

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By *iman60  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"A slightly more sensible solution might be to put a time restriction on receiving unemployment benefit

The disabled are already made to endure medical after medical

We could also stop wasting money repeating medical for pip,universal credit etc and reduce the money paid to maxima ( atos and capita) who made £26 million profit from testing people even though they have never achieved a satisfactory mark for the quality of the medical carried out "

I assume you mean Maximus the US firm that now runs the health assesments. They took over the staff and setup from atss and capita who were then the same people the NHS had. All they did was be made to upgrade all the kit and take on all the dead wood and do more assesments to standards set by the DWP. Only the wirst of the good and bad stories ever get talked about not the 1,000 of people who get one with it. As to limiting time for unemployment , all that would do is transfer it to another benefit unless you are advocating saying , you have been on the dole to years your getting nothing now , go and sleep on streets?

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By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago

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seems like the usual crap I'd expect to hear about benefits, PIP, and unemployment from people probably in the "I'M Alright Already Jack"bracket, and put everyone else down, The average person on benefits, does not receive anything like the terrorists who have been exposed, that is simply showing how weak the benefit system is, when it comes to immigrants and their families milking it for all they are worth.

PIP benefits, run by ATOS and Capita previously, was a complete sham, the people who sat in the offices, interrogating claimants with trick questions, were mainly actually ex Ambulance drivers and paramedics, who were offered a higher wage to do that job than they were in their career in the NHS. They were responsible for turning down on a daily basis, people with Cancer and other terminal illnesses ffs!!oh and ATOS ? A french company incase you are wondering.

As for unemployment benefit, Again the system needs to be changed to stop long term lazy claimants being able to make a career out of it, but again the system is such ,that its not those people who get clobbered, its someone who may have worked for the last 30 or 40 years, and has lost their job for whatever reason, but can be bullied into accepting a 0 hours contract job, with no set hours, and for a company owned by a multi millionaire, I think we all know a sports retailer who slots into that one quite well.

For years its been the same old thing in this country, all the shouting about how succesive governments are going to clamp down on everything, when in reality they clamp down on the most vulnerable and easy to manipulate.

Sorry but thats my Rant over

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 15 weeks ago

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It's worse than that.

They first make you wait six months hoping you'll die before your application is made.

They lie on the report they make.

They interpret your answers to fit the rejection criteria.

All applications are rejected, many then give up. If you go for madatorty reconsideration they reject most, again people give up. You then appeal formally, they ignore that, many give up. Next step Court. You have a fair hearing now, most win in court, my points almost tripled, I was awarded the money and backdated with a stinging rebuke to the DWP for my suffering through their process.

The system is deliberately cruel, biased, inhumane. If I had the money I'd consider suing the Secretary of State for mental cruelty and unnecessary suffering. To the point that letters from the DWP cause my doctors to panic with the state they put me in.

You can sit there and moan about benefit scroungers and all the other rubbish, just pray you never need to access these services, that will change your perspective forever.

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By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago

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well said Eric , I totally agree, I have first hand experience of it too, and it is cruel and downright sick and evil, how these people can be paid to do that job,knowing fine well they are inflicting pain and financial hardship on someone who is seriously ill, and going through enough at that point without having to worry about surviving while they are ill.

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By *sunamiwarrior   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

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There is not doubt a lot of people have genuine complaints but you would expect that from the many thousands of cases being dealt with. I’ve also been personally involved through my voluntary work which is with the homeless and re locating vulnerable women but closer to home one family member who suffers a disabilitating disease and cannot work and another with chronic anxiety/panic attacks which is much more difficult to diagnose.

Both see the necessity of these tests especially when they look around and see so many scamming the system, but I’ve been with them attending assessments etc and none of us have had many complaints and others we meet along the way are mostly positive.

Obviously the media only jumps on the bad news.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

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"seems like the usual crap I'd expect to hear about benefits, PIP, and unemployment from people probably in the "I'M Alright Already Jack"bracket, and put everyone else down, The average person on benefits, does not receive anything like the terrorists who have been exposed, that is simply showing how weak the benefit system is, when it comes to immigrants and their families milking it for all they are worth.

PIP benefits, run by ATOS and Capita previously, was a complete sham, the people who sat in the offices, interrogating claimants with trick questions, were mainly actually ex Ambulance drivers and paramedics, who were offered a higher wage to do that job than they were in their career in the NHS. They were responsible for turning down on a daily basis, people with Cancer and other terminal illnesses ffs!!oh and ATOS ? A french company incase you are wondering.

As for unemployment benefit, Again the system needs to be changed to stop long term lazy claimants being able to make a career out of it, but again the system is such ,that its not those people who get clobbered, its someone who may have worked for the last 30 or 40 years, and has lost their job for whatever reason, but can be bullied into accepting a 0 hours contract job, with no set hours, and for a company owned by a multi millionaire, I think we all know a sports retailer who slots into that one quite well.

For years its been the same old thing in this country, all the shouting about how succesive governments are going to clamp down on everything, when in reality they clamp down on the most vulnerable and easy to manipulate.

Sorry but thats my Rant over

"

Why do you automatically think that examples of misuse of the benefit system is a slight upon those who genuinely need its help????? All the examples of misuse are in the public domain, and illustrate how inefficient the system has become, and how open to fraudulent claims it is. It goes without saying that if the bad is so badly handled, then the good and deserving are going to receive awful treatment, as well. So please don't poohpooh those who knock it, we're actually on the side of those who genuinely deserve help.

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By *ajor mistake  (M) 14 weeks ago

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there is fraud through out the government and most of it is by large companies who can get clever lawyers to ensure they don't pay for it, anyone on benefits has a hard time, you have to jump through so many hoops, even if you are doing the right thing, the problem is that we have a one size fits all system, but not everyone has the same needs, some needs can't be met at all, I'm on Universal credit, I'm 62 I look for jobs every day,and do everything asked , I worked since the age of 15 without a break, until I was 60 now I despite getting to interview seem to be overlooked, I guess because the employer wants a younger, more flexible employee, so am I benefit scrounger? I did get a job for a month earlier this year, and after we had done what was needed we were let go, and this same firm always advertising, but actually, only employs as and when they need staff, so theres no job security, and this is what we are up against, then you have to tell your advisor why the job didn't last, I was ok, my advisor was well aware of this firms practices, but I could so easy had been sanctioned, as regards the answer, one option should be that once you have paid in 45 years of contributions, you should have the option of a half way house between retirement and pension, so taking the over 60's out of the need to job search, but paying them the same as if they would get on Universal credit, until they reach pensionable age either that or bring the pensioned age down to a realistic level, because if you loose your job, through no fault of your own, its highly likily that once you are past 60, you won't be employable.

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By *ree as a dove  (M) 14 weeks ago

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Mr Major I am sorry for the problems you have encountered recently. My firm took on two people over the last year one aged 58 one aged 61 and through the DWP we had a lot of help from them under “Help and support for older workers”. Some older people have some health problems and whilst we were prepared to look at employing people over the age of 60 we were concerned about health issues which may or may not arise. Through the DWP we now have a means to evaluate “how to maintain their working hours and to allow them to be off for medical help”.

I am sorry you have had problems finding work, but look up the DWP web page there are many help lines for you. Business in the Community Age at Work leadership team as Business Champion for Older Workers.

With ever better medical interventions than say 10 years ago, people are living longer and the group’s aim is to ensure employers adapt successfully to the fundamental long-term changes that this will bring to society and the workplace. Reading some of the statistics is very satisfying for those over 50 or will be 50 by2024 when half the adult population and a third of the workforce will be aged over 50; and caring for younger and older dependents is becoming an increasing feature of our society and our working lives.

What we found in the help from the DWP through the Business in the Community was to enable us to remain competitive employers, but with the need to attract and retain workers of all ages, younger and older, to ensure a skilled and experienced, productive workforce. What we found was we did not have to risk higher costs through increased absenteeism, lowered job performance and premature loss of expertise.

The Healthy Workplaces Group has uniquely brought together in one place some of the key and simplest tools employers need to improve the health and productivity of their ageing workforces and reduce costs. This can significantly help to improve the well-being of older people both in the workplace and well into their later lives

One the organisations you ought to contact is The Prince of Wales Business in the Community look up their web site, then look up the section, Campaigns and Programmes, then hit on Employment and Diversity. You will see a list click on whatever sector you believe you may fit into. If you also look at the sector which say “Ready for Work” this may help you.

So as you can see there are many opportunities for those over 60 unlike the treatment you received from that firm you worked for a short time.

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 14 weeks ago

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The trouble is the welfare system was created to help people genuinely in need, but is being abused by far too many shirkers who treat it as a way of life and have no desire to ever do anything else. And they are the ones who get the most out of it. Scumbags.

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By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

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"The trouble is the welfare system was created to help people genuinely in need, but is being abused by far too many shirkers who treat it as a way of life and have no desire to ever do anything else. And they are the ones who get the most out of it. Scumbags. "

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By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

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"The trouble is the welfare system was created to help people genuinely in need, but is being abused by far too many shirkers who treat it as a way of life and have no desire to ever do anything else. And they are the ones who get the most out of it. Scumbags. "

you are completely correct there

Some are better than workers shouldn’t be like that at all .

One way of stopping these people taking advantage is you can only be on benifit for 12 months then cut they benefits down 50% just may force them to actually look for work

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By *avid93111  (M) 14 weeks ago

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Of course it,s not, just a big pit , needs radical change, those that can pay should pay, and have it means tested . It,s ridiculous in it,s present form, so outdated . The big pharma companies should be stopped from Bribing managers to buy their products at inflated prices, And yes I know R&D costs billions but just a quick glance at their balance sheets would tell , how greedy they are.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

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I don't think the Pharma companies are any greedier than the next industry, but if any industry finds a customer who is stupid enough to pay inflated prices, then said industry itself would be stupid. Has anyone, anywhere, ever heard of a company deliberately turning down profit?

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 14 weeks ago

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"The trouble is the welfare system was created to help people genuinely in need, but is being abused by far too many shirkers who treat it as a way of life and have no desire to ever do anything else. And they are the ones who get the most out of it. Scumbags. you are completely correct there

Some are better than workers shouldn’t be like that at all .

One way of stopping these people taking advantage is you can only be on benifit for 12 months then cut they benefits down 50% just may force them to actually look for work "

Personally I would make anyone claiming for longer than 3 months do voluntary work to earn their benefits. With the cuts to local authorities budgets, they would easily have work for them to do.

If they refuse they lose their benefits.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

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"The trouble is the welfare system was created to help people genuinely in need, but is being abused by far too many shirkers who treat it as a way of life and have no desire to ever do anything else. And they are the ones who get the most out of it. Scumbags. you are completely correct there

Some are better than workers shouldn’t be like that at all .

One way of stopping these people taking advantage is you can only be on benifit for 12 months then cut they benefits down 50% just may force them to actually look for work

Personally I would make anyone claiming for longer than 3 months do voluntary work to earn their benefits. With the cuts to local authorities budgets, they would easily have work for them to do.

If they refuse they lose their benefits."

yes totally agree mr scouse a lot better idea than I put forward as yours would actually work

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By *VSEARCHER  (M) 14 weeks ago

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What is wrong with you people this all screams me me me sod anyone else, unfortunately we live in an unequal society fact while MP's give themselves well above inflation rises, us plebs are told austerity is ensential, do you really think they really care about us ? Get a grip you lot.

So you bought your council house and now think your middle class and vote conservative that is just as leaching off of the working man / woman as people blagging benfiets.

Unfortunately the real permantely sick and disabled have been demonized by the Tory right. And you now associate anyone receiving benfiets is faking it this is really not true.

The capping of benfiets has allowed the government ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas and house prices shoot up shutting out our kids out of even renting a decent house for a reasonable fair rent.

Let's get real it's nothing more than all about making as much as money as possible and nothing more than that.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

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"What is wrong with you people this all screams me me me sod anyone else, unfortunately we live in an unequal society fact while MP's give themselves well above inflation rises, us plebs are told austerity is ensential, do you really think they really care about us ? Get a grip you lot.

So you bought your council house and now think your middle class and vote conservative that is just as leaching off of the working man / woman as people blagging benfiets.

Unfortunately the real permantely sick and disabled have been demonized by the Tory right. And you now associate anyone receiving benfiets is faking it this is really not true.

The capping of benfiets has allowed the government ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas and house prices shoot up shutting out our kids out of even renting a decent house for a reasonable fair rent.

Let's get real it's nothing more than all about making as much as money as possible and nothing more than that.

"

you know what I agree with you on every point

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By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

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"What is wrong with you people this all screams me me me sod anyone else, unfortunately we live in an unequal society fact while MP's give themselves well above inflation rises, us plebs are told austerity is ensential, do you really think they really care about us ? Get a grip you lot.

So you bought your council house and now think your middle class and vote conservative that is just as leaching off of the working man / woman as people blagging benfiets.

Unfortunately the real permantely sick and disabled have been demonized by the Tory right. And you now associate anyone receiving benfiets is faking it this is really not true.

The capping of benfiets has allowed the government ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas and house prices shoot up shutting out our kids out of even renting a decent house for a reasonable fair rent.

Let's get real it's nothing more than all about making as much as money as possible and nothing more than that.

"

MPs do not set their own wages, and in the last round of increases, many, of all pursuasions, did not take the offered pay rise.

Austerity was essential. We had no money. What do you do when you're down to your last few quid, go on a spending spree???

Ref your assertions about council house buyers thinking they are now middle class … you'll have to explain that one. That assumes that you believe all home owners to be better than none home owners, which is clearly twaddle. Some choose not to own, others cannot afford to own. Those who buy their council houses can consider themselves extremely fortunate to be in a position where they can buy cut price housing.

If you could get rid of this class system notion, you would see how ridiculous your argument is.

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By *ree as a dove  (M) 14 weeks ago

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TV SEARCHER,

Interesting post you have made, I think NOT and I will explain why. You talk about “we live in an unequal society”, yes we do. So I suggest you cast your mind back to the 1917 Russian revolution this was all about what most Russians had hoped for in as much that life would be much easier and fairer now that the Romanovs had gone. The Provisional Government said they wanted to create a fairer society, now where have I heard that mantra, oh yes Corbyn’s LABOUR party, but there were lots of issues that needed fixing with the creation of The old Soviet Union oh yes and they tried to be a equal society that was what those who fought in 1917 had hoped for???????

In many ways, this revolution started a brand new political system that had never been tried before, this system is called communism and the first communist ruler of Russia was a man called Vladimir Lenin. Many Russians felt that life was hard and unfair; it seemed that a small number of people who were rich and powerful had everything, while poorer people had nothing, maybe that is what you are getting at??????.

Lenin knew how unhappy the people of Russia were, he promised them lots of things that they wanted his slogan was peace, bread and land, these promises made him very popular. Strike accord with what Corbyn said at his Party’s conference, “lets give everyone whether working or not £500.00 per month”, without a thought on how this was going to be paid for?

But the ideas behind communism divide people around the world to this day. Look at China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam. For some, communism is an idea which can lead to a fairer society. But millions of people have been killed or imprisoned under communist rulers. It often also failed to bring about the changes promised to countries that have tried it. What we see with all of these countries our governments controlling everything and ruled by hard men who could all be called “a dictator”. Hardly an equal society in those countries I have mentioned above what you get is a very few who become very wealthy with the majority beaten (not literary) into submission and “kept in their places” and ordered not to challenge the system or else!

You then go on about those who live in their council or social housing, who work hard, save hard and manage to be able to purchase their homes which they have paid rent on for the required years to be able to get the discount. I say good luck to them, why should YOU or anyone else deny them the chance too “better themselves” or is it a case of “the red eyed monster called envy”???? I know many in the Durham area who have bought their council homes some of the people we employ have over the past 10 years, bought their council home. Do they vote Conservative because they now have become “home owners” don’t think so and neither do they subscribe to being “middle class” simply for owning their home. Like the majority of those in this country who work for their living whether you own a company or work in it are “working class because we all work for a living”.

As far as I am aware those who are permanently sick or disabled are thankful we have a “Welfare System” which does care for them. Without those working who pay their taxes with like the 1% of the top earners paying 35% of the tax receipts with the remainder 15% of earners who make up roughly 90% of income tax receipts, there would be NO welfare system. My personal tax bill for 2016/17 was £63,000 with corporation tax of £200K plus.

So let’s just look at the benefit cap which you appear to be vehemently against using such verbose language and I quote you “ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas” end quote.

In order to answer your question I emailed the MP for North Yorkshire for a answer to some questions, its easy to write a headline without facts that’s not my style.

So let’s look at what the cap is for 2018 for those living outside London

£384.62 per week (£20,000 a year) if you’re in a couple, whether your children live with you or not

£384.62 per week (£20,000 a year) if you’re single and your children live with you

£257.69 per week (£13,400 a year) if you’re single and you do not have children, or your children do not live with you

To receive a take home pay of £20,000 you would have to earn £25,000 a year.

To receive a take home pay of £13,400 you would have to earn £15,000 a year

For those who live in Greater London including central London

£442.31 per week (£23,000 a year) if you’re in a couple, whether your children live with you or not.

£442.31 per week (£23,000 a year) if you’re single and your children live with you.

£296.35 per week (£15,410 a year) if you’re single and you do not have children, or your children do not live with you.

To receive a take home pay of £23,000 you would have to earn £29,500 a year

To receive a take home pay of £15,410 you would have to earn £18,100 a year.

Lastly on benefits like Child Tax Credit, where income-based Jobseekers Allowance although taxable is not counted as income for tax credit purposes you can receive

£175,00 per week for one child and £300,00 for 2 or more children

Your last point about those receiving any kind of benefits in your words and I quote “And you now associate anyone receiving benefits is faking it this is really not true” end quote.

So let’s look at what this Government has paid out 2017/2018 is a eye watering £177.5Billion that is a massive amount of money which us tax payers are contributing to those who legitimately claim welfare benefits. From this 2017/18 the amount of benefits fraud has been £2.35Billion in fraud claims for jobseekers and other claims and £1.46Billion is housing benefit fraud that’s £3.81 Billion which could have gone on other Government services.

So please, yes there are people who do deserve to have access to our wonderful welfare system, its there for a purpose to who assist those with the needs who cannot work through illness or disability. Its not there as a free access to a cash handout for those who simply will not work and who put two fingers up to us taxpayers who make substantial contributions to the Government who then handout payments.

In answer to the OP, NO……..unless taxes are increased and a shake up on who gets what in free handouts.

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By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"What is wrong with you people this all screams me me me sod anyone else, unfortunately we live in an unequal society fact while MP's give themselves well above inflation rises, us plebs are told austerity is ensential, do you really think they really care about us ? Get a grip you lot.

So you bought your council house and now think your middle class and vote conservative that is just as leaching off of the working man / woman as people blagging benfiets.

Unfortunately the real permantely sick and disabled have been demonized by the Tory right. And you now associate anyone receiving benfiets is faking it this is really not true.

The capping of benfiets has allowed the government ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas and house prices shoot up shutting out our kids out of even renting a decent house for a reasonable fair rent.

Let's get real it's nothing more than all about making as much as money as possible and nothing more than that.

"

Calm down dear, you'll burst a blood vessel!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

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"TV SEARCHER,

Interesting post you have made, I think NOT and I will explain why. You talk about “we live in an unequal society”, yes we do. So I suggest you cast your mind back to the 1917 Russian revolution this was all about what most Russians had hoped for in as much that life would be much easier and fairer now that the Romanovs had gone. The Provisional Government said they wanted to create a fairer society, now where have I heard that mantra, oh yes Corbyn’s LABOUR party, but there were lots of issues that needed fixing with the creation of The old Soviet Union oh yes and they tried to be a equal society that was what those who fought in 1917 had hoped for???????

In many ways, this revolution started a brand new political system that had never been tried before, this system is called communism and the first communist ruler of Russia was a man called Vladimir Lenin. Many Russians felt that life was hard and unfair; it seemed that a small number of people who were rich and powerful had everything, while poorer people had nothing, maybe that is what you are getting at??????.

Lenin knew how unhappy the people of Russia were, he promised them lots of things that they wanted his slogan was peace, bread and land, these promises made him very popular. Strike accord with what Corbyn said at his Party’s conference, “lets give everyone whether working or not £500.00 per month”, without a thought on how this was going to be paid for?

But the ideas behind communism divide people around the world to this day. Look at China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam. For some, communism is an idea which can lead to a fairer society. But millions of people have been killed or imprisoned under communist rulers. It often also failed to bring about the changes promised to countries that have tried it. What we see with all of these countries our governments controlling everything and ruled by hard men who could all be called “a dictator”. Hardly an equal society in those countries I have mentioned above what you get is a very few who become very wealthy with the majority beaten (not literary) into submission and “kept in their places” and ordered not to challenge the system or else!

You then go on about those who live in their council or social housing, who work hard, save hard and manage to be able to purchase their homes which they have paid rent on for the required years to be able to get the discount. I say good luck to them, why should YOU or anyone else deny them the chance too “better themselves” or is it a case of “the red eyed monster called envy”???? I know many in the Durham area who have bought their council homes some of the people we employ have over the past 10 years, bought their council home. Do they vote Conservative because they now have become “home owners” don’t think so and neither do they subscribe to being “middle class” simply for owning their home. Like the majority of those in this country who work for their living whether you own a company or work in it are “working class because we all work for a living”.

As far as I am aware those who are permanently sick or disabled are thankful we have a “Welfare System” which does care for them. Without those working who pay their taxes with like the 1% of the top earners paying 35% of the tax receipts with the remainder 15% of earners who make up roughly 90% of income tax receipts, there would be NO welfare system. My personal tax bill for 2016/17 was £63,000 with corporation tax of £200K plus.

So let’s just look at the benefit cap which you appear to be vehemently against using such verbose language and I quote you “ethnically cleanse large areas to gentrify and redevlope what used to be social housing areas” end quote.

In order to answer your question I emailed the MP for North Yorkshire for a answer to some questions, its easy to write a headline without facts that’s not my style.

So let’s look at what the cap is for 2018 for those living outside London

£384.62 per week (£20,000 a year) if you’re in a couple, whether your children live with you or not

£384.62 per week (£20,000 a year) if you’re single and your children live with you

£257.69 per week (£13,400 a year) if you’re single and you do not have children, or your children do not live with you

To receive a take home pay of £20,000 you would have to earn £25,000 a year.

To receive a take home pay of £13,400 you would have to earn £15,000 a year

For those who live in Greater London including central London

£442.31 per week (£23,000 a year) if you’re in a couple, whether your children live with you or not.

£442.31 per week (£23,000 a year) if you’re single and your children live with you.

£296.35 per week (£15,410 a year) if you’re single and you do not have children, or your children do not live with you.

To receive a take home pay of £23,000 you would have to earn £29,500 a year

To receive a take home pay of £15,410 you would have to earn £18,100 a year.

Lastly on benefits like Child Tax Credit, where income-based Jobseekers Allowance although taxable is not counted as income for tax credit purposes you can receive

£175,00 per week for one child and £300,00 for 2 or more children

Your last point about those receiving any kind of benefits in your words and I quote “And you now associate anyone receiving benefits is faking it this is really not true” end quote.

So let’s look at what this Government has paid out 2017/2018 is a eye watering £177.5Billion that is a massive amount of money which us tax payers are contributing to those who legitimately claim welfare benefits. From this 2017/18 the amount of benefits fraud has been £2.35Billion in fraud claims for jobseekers and other claims and £1.46Billion is housing benefit fraud that’s £3.81 Billion which could have gone on other Government services.

So please, yes there are people who do deserve to have access to our wonderful welfare system, its there for a purpose to who assist those with the needs who cannot work through illness or disability. Its not there as a free access to a cash handout for those who simply will not work and who put two fingers up to us taxpayers who make substantial contributions to the Government who then handout payments.

In answer to the OP, NO……..unless taxes are increased and a shake up on who gets what in free handouts.

"

Err … Freeasadove … you don't have a very close relative who lives in the Cotswolds, do you? ..

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 13 weeks ago

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Unemployment can happen to anybody, it a business closes it takes time for the employees to find other jobs, this is why we have a welfare state.

At the moment we have more jobs than workers and we have imported workers from abroad to fill these posts. So why do we have such high unemployment levels?

The only people who are long term unemployed choose to be so because they don’t want to do the jobs that are available to them.

A simple but expensive in the short term, answer would be to require the long term unemployed to attend for assessment of their job skills and to assist with education and training as needed on a 9-5 Monday to Friday basis. Those that need no extra training would have to perform community services again Monday to Friday 9-5.

If to get their benefits people are required to attend for 40 hours per week they will soon find a job for 16 hours and claim working tax credits.

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