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#metoo Backlash?

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 3 weeks ago

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Anyone watching the situation in the US about the confirmation of mr K I think would be forgiven for thinking that finally society, (in the form of the US senate) has started to have had enough of the demonisation of men, particularly by the metoo movement.

I'm no Trump fan but I found myself agreeing with his sentiment that young men nowadays are having a difficult time reconciling the hatred being shown against men in the media. It's not just the holding to account of bad men for what they've done it's the evident glee and self-righteousness of the accusers.

It seems to have switched from innocent until proven guilty to guilty on all counts if you're a man.

The implication seems to be all men are the same and are vicariously guilty.

In my view it's gone too far. No man who has committed a sexual crime should get away with it but all it takes is an accusation to ruin a life.

Look what the BBC did to Cliff Richard without a shred of evidence.

It's time innocent until proven guilty was re-established for all including men.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 3 weeks ago

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I agree totally. I so many instances this raking up of distant past midemeanors has gone too far. I know it was often difficult to report a sexual crime years ago, but some of these recent accusations, which cannot be proven, sound almost stage managed with the intention of ruining someones life.

I'm not a big fan of Trump and not sure that the appointment of Kavanagh is a good thing as it over politicises the judiciary. However the evidence against him is flimsy to say the least.

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By *ree as a dove   premium paying member (M) 3 weeks ago

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Very good point Mr Moondog but you have left one very important factor out and that is “Social Media” which has galvanised those wishing to exploit #me too do you think its gone to far the other way with regards to us men?

I read that Brigitte Bardot said “women in the film industry who are complaining of sexual harassment are ‘hypocritical, ridiculous and uninteresting in the vast majority of cases”.

Does she and others they have a point? Has the campaign gone too far? I do think now that men are certainly much more careful in how they approach women. I certainly stopped hugging any of my female staff in my office, I stopped this two years ago and most noticed and asked why had I stopped (self preservation) (also on site with contractors even if they are hunks) unlike the French we have gone back to a handshake in greeting people we know.

Certainly some men have been exposed by social media people like Harvey Weinstein who allegedly abused their power in the movie industry needed to be exposed, but remember he has yet to be convicted of any offence. But the means to do this, by a social media campaign, was wrong from the outset.

Social media campaigns by their nature are incapable of moderation and completely unsuitable to any kind of serious examination of particular relationships. The result was predictable. It has turned into an all-out, uncontrolled, inchoate campaign where the minor is conflated with the serious, where what occurred in one very special business is said to be the norm in every business, where there is no attempt to give the accused the opportunity to reply to defend themselves. All accused are automatically pronounced guilty and equally so, to me this has all the character of a witch hunt, of mob rule?

That sense of empowerment given to the majority of women who have used #me too also brings questions and unease, inevitably. The attacks come in all shapes and forms, targeting an individual’s personal account of harm, a workplace’s initiative, a researcher’s methodology, or a government policy. These attacks are often insidious, with the fear of losing power dressed up as a legitimate concern about “reverse discrimination” or “an attack on fair process”.

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*kws By *kws  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Men are slowly becoming the underdogs.

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By *awtyCawty   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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It will come back to night then on their fat asses. I for one own a business and would never employ a woman nowadays. Too much hassle and baggage and potential for aggravation.

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By *awtyCawty   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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Bite not night stupid phone*

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays."

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays."

What a wonderful idea. Let's join countries like China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, etc in scrapping human rights legislation, and return to the good old days when women, gays, ethnic minorities and others were seen as second-class citizens. Let's just protect the rich white men. This is of course sarcasm, but the sad thing is that some people might actually think it's a good idea

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays.

What a wonderful idea. Let's join countries like China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, etc in scrapping human rights legislation, and return to the good old days when women, gays, ethnic minorities and others were seen as second-class citizens. Let's just protect the rich white men. This is of course sarcasm, but the sad thing is that some people might actually think it's a good idea"

Yes, I think its a good idea, although it would have to be carefully thought out because you can guarantee that MPs (of all political persuasions) will screw things up, given the opportunity!

But before you start getting excited and condemning the idea out of hand have a read of this: http://www.abouthumanrights.co.uk/uk-bill-rights.html

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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And so it goes on.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45818699

Give me strength!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays.

What a wonderful idea. Let's join countries like China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, etc in scrapping human rights legislation, and return to the good old days when women, gays, ethnic minorities and others were seen as second-class citizens. Let's just protect the rich white men. This is of course sarcasm, but the sad thing is that some people might actually think it's a good idea"

I obviously think it would be a good idea, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. Given our excellent legal system, both criminal and civil, there is no reason why matters that have been referred to the ECHR previously, cannot be handled via our existing judiciary system. Those who have resorted to ECHR are those who cannot accept a perfectly legal decision based upon the law as it stands. Therefore any decision by the ECHR that countermands British law, is by definition, illegal in this country. So, we have signed up to a piece of legal nonsense.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays.

What a wonderful idea. Let's join countries like China, Zimbabwe, Saudi Arabia, etc in scrapping human rights legislation, and return to the good old days when women, gays, ethnic minorities and others were seen as second-class citizens. Let's just protect the rich white men. This is of course sarcasm, but the sad thing is that some people might actually think it's a good idea"

sounds like an conservative political broadcast

But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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Do give it a rest Danny. I think we all know by now that you hate the Conservatives and you favourite pastime is to have a dig at them

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Do give it a rest Danny. I think we all know by now that you hate the Conservatives and you favourite pastime is to have a dig at them "

Oh dear, you've done it now! I can guess what's coming next.....

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Do give it a rest Danny. I think we all know by now that you hate the Conservatives and you favourite pastime is to have a dig at them

Oh dear, you've done it now! I can guess what's coming next..... "

I’m so so so sorry I forgot myself

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man?

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man?"

The #metoo movement is all about sexual harassment. Nobody's mentioned the superiority or otherwise of white men over black men, so why do you need to bring it up?

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man?

The #metoo movement is all about sexual harassment. Nobody's mentioned the superiority or otherwise of white men over black men, so why do you need to bring it up?"

mr _nubis51

I don’t wish to get into any argument with you or anyone else but go and read the nineth post in this very thread and then read the very next post which is your own

And then you will see why I said what I did

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man?

The #metoo movement is all about sexual harassment. Nobody's mentioned the superiority or otherwise of white men over black men, so why do you need to bring it up?"

mr _nubis51

I don’t wish to get into any argument with you or anyone else but go and read the nineth post in this very thread and then read the very next post which is your own

And then you will see why I said what I did

I may have jumped to wrong conclusion apology’s for that

and I quote Let's just protect the rich white men that’s the very reason I put what I put

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"But why is it the notion that a white man is more superior to an black man , why should a gay man/woman be treat differently to a straight person

So why would anyone find it an good idea especially a gay/bi man?

The #metoo movement is all about sexual harassment. Nobody's mentioned the superiority or otherwise of white men over black men, so why do you need to bring it up? mr _nubis51

I don’t wish to get into any argument with you or anyone else but go and read the nineth post in this very thread and then read the very next post which is your own

And then you will see why I said what I did

I may have jumped to wrong conclusion apology’s for that

and I quote Let's just protect the rich white men that’s the very reason I put what I put

"

I don't see why you're taking me to task over that comment - it was your mate from down south that posted it - albeit as sarcasm. And seeing as you read my post after his you'll see I said nothing about white and black, so don't try playing the race card on here, it's uncalled for, totally unnecessary and could well end up with somebody getting banned by the mods if it were to develop into anything more serious.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Many things that happened, 30 or 40 years ago, things that society, at the time, thought were quite acceptable, are frowned upon and in some cases, even demonised, now. This doesn't make sense. Do we not have the gumption to realise that its grossly unfair to set today's rules against yesterdays actions? If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays."

The convention on Human rights has nothing to do with Brexit. We signed that 20 years before we joined the EU.

The European Court of Justice often uses the convention to come to some strange conclusions. I think that after we leave, our courts will apply the convention in a more accurate manner.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR. "

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is the Council of Europe, a completely different body to the EU. Leaving the EU will only mean that we will not be subject to the ECJ.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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That's good enough for me - it's one of the reasons I voted to Leave the wretched EU.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is the Council of Europe, a completely different body to the EU. Leaving the EU will only mean that we will not be subject to the ECJ.

"

FFS!!! Read my posts!! …. where do I say ECHR is part of the EU????? Our membership of the EU means we HAVE to accept ECHR rulings. Once out of the EU, we have the option to remove ourselves from the ECHR …… how difficult is that to understand?????? ….

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By *ree as a dove   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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I am sorry to say Mr Caravaggio you are wrong on two counts. As far as I am aware and I checked again this morning, the United Kingdom on the 4th November 1950 as one of the ten Founder Members of the Council of Europe signed the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). We the UK were one of the first members of the Council of Europe to ratify the Convention when it passed through our Parliament in 1951.

I was not around in 1972, but I do know now The European Communities Act came into being and that Edward Heath signed the Treaty of Accession in Brussels on 22nd January 1972. For the Treaty to take effect upon entry into the Communities on 1st January 1973 and for the UK to embrace the EEC Institutions and Community law, an Act of Parliament was required. The 1972 European Communities Act was the piece of legislation that brought the UK into the EEC later the Europe Union; it gives EU law supremacy over UK national law. A large amount of EU law effective in the UK currently relies on the 1972 Act.

It is quite easy to check, The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) is a completely separate institution from the ECHR. The Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) interprets EU law to make sure it is applied in the same way in all EU countries and settles legal disputes between National Governments and EU institutions. Each Member State has the right to appoint two Judges sitting in this Court. It can also, in certain circumstances, be used by individuals, companies or organisations to take action against an EU institution, if they feel it has somehow infringed their rights.

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By *ree as a dove   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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The discussions or rather the (negotiations) between the EU and the UK are I gather from my MP “when we leave the EU after the transition period the proposal is The Court of Justice of the European Union will have no jurisdiction over us”. The government's current position, and we will all know by the end of November 2018 whether this will happen, is to enter a transition period from the 29th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020. It is proposed that during this period the UK will continue to abide by European Court rulings. So in very plain English, if the Government failed to agree post transition terms with the EU and the UK ended up with a "no deal" Brexit, then the UK would leave ECJ jurisdiction on the 29th March 2019.

For anyone who wishes to check up on certain facts may I suggest as I have done this morning look up the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, interim report, Chapter 2 European Union Law and exit day, Repealing the European Communities Act 1972 (ECA) which may be known as The Great Repeal Bill? Its clear and the one thing it will give you are the correct and TRUE facts.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is the Council of Europe, a completely different body to the EU. Leaving the EU will only mean that we will not be subject to the ECJ.

FFS!!! Read my posts!! …. where do I say ECHR is part of the EU????? Our membership of the EU means we HAVE to accept ECHR rulings. Once out of the EU, we have the option to remove ourselves from the ECHR …… how difficult is that to understand?????? …. "

Obviously to difficult for you. The EHCR has nothing to do with the membership of the EU. We could opt out at any time, the same way as any menber state could if they wished to.

Membership of the EU is not reliant on being a signitory of the convention.

Likewise, it is highly unlikely that any post Brexit government would recind the convention.

Is that easier for you to grasp?

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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What's dangerous about it? Do you know who I was referring to then?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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"What's dangerous about it? Do you know who I was referring to then?"

I thought Burger King was American owned so nothing to do with the EU.

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By *ree as a dove   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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What very clear on this site is that when anyone writes something which is well thought out in clear concise English with facts readily available to everyone your accused of being someone else. There are some on here who simply hate it when they “don’t get it”

Are you the only person Mr Anubis51 who can write on subjects in these forums, you are not, if you don’t like what I write simply move on, don’t carp or be sarcastic its unbefitting

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By *etssee5  (M) 2 weeks ago

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I dont know why everyone gets worked up so much.

Government are now in position to decide whats what due to all the people who voted leave because they were lied to about saving 365 or 36.5million pounds a day by not being in eu.

British public love a party leader who lies.

Now they have the publics supposed authority to lead us into further oblivion, rest assured they will.

So what? Most people here who are concerned about it wont be here in another 20 years.

The youth of today dont give a fuck because they will all earn a million a week being all 'look at me' and advertising lifestyle products on instagram etc and the pound wont matter due to a cryptocurrency infuence of the worlds economy, you will still be able to draw money out in local currency no matter which country you are jetting to next but then again you will just beep everything with your phone and wait for the invoice

Whats most disturbing is just how many people have trust in the british government after twenty years of lies bullshit and number juggling and yet they still get off their arses to vote in this 'democracy' facade, they care so much about this country but still pay their council taxes which in turn gives the government the funding to keep us under oppression.

If the general public werent so fucking thick maybe people power would have a chance to make a difference

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By *annyboy87  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"The discussions or rather the (negotiations) between the EU and the UK are I gather from my MP “when we leave the EU after the transition period the proposal is The Court of Justice of the European Union will have no jurisdiction over us”. The government's current position, and we will all know by the end of November 2018 whether this will happen, is to enter a transition period from the 29th March 2019 to the 31st December 2020. It is proposed that during this period the UK will continue to abide by European Court rulings. So in very plain English, if the Government failed to agree post transition terms with the EU and the UK ended up with a "no deal" Brexit, then the UK would leave ECJ jurisdiction on the 29th March 2019.

For anyone who wishes to check up on certain facts may I suggest as I have done this morning look up the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, interim report, Chapter 2 European Union Law and exit day, Repealing the European Communities Act 1972 (ECA) which may be known as The Great Repeal Bill? Its clear and the one thing it will give you are the correct and TRUE facts.

"

very interesting informative post I myself have learnt I was thinking wrong on a couple of things there ,

We need more informative posts like this

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"I dont know why everyone gets worked up so much.

Government are now in position to decide whats what due to all the people who voted leave because they were lied to about saving 365 or 36.5million pounds a day by not being in eu.

British public love a party leader who lies.

Now they have the publics supposed authority to lead us into further oblivion, rest assured they will.

So what? Most people here who are concerned about it wont be here in another 20 years.

The youth of today dont give a fuck because they will all earn a million a week being all 'look at me' and advertising lifestyle products on instagram etc and the pound wont matter due to a cryptocurrency infuence of the worlds economy, you will still be able to draw money out in local currency no matter which country you are jetting to next but then again you will just beep everything with your phone and wait for the invoice

Whats most disturbing is just how many people have trust in the british government after twenty years of lies bullshit and number juggling and yet they still get off their arses to vote in this 'democracy' facade, they care so much about this country but still pay their council taxes which in turn gives the government the funding to keep us under oppression.

If the general public werent so fucking thick maybe people power would have a chance to make a difference "

and breathe

glad that you aren’t a member of the British public, otherwise you would be ever so insulting

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"What very clear on this site is that when anyone writes something which is well thought out in clear concise English with facts readily available to everyone your accused of being someone else. There are some on here who simply hate it when they “don’t get it”

Are you the only person Mr Anubis51 who can write on subjects in these forums, you are not, if you don’t like what I write simply move on, don’t carp or be sarcastic its unbefitting

"

Oh, touchy bugger aren't you? I simply made an observation. The individual I referred to hasn't been on this site for a while now but it just crossed my mind that he was as full of facts as you seem to be. However, in view of your unpleasant response maybe you should consider practising what you preach in future.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"I dont know why everyone gets worked up so much.

Government are now in position to decide whats what due to all the people who voted leave because they were lied to about saving 365 or 36.5million pounds a day by not being in eu.

British public love a party leader who lies.

Now they have the publics supposed authority to lead us into further oblivion, rest assured they will.

So what? Most people here who are concerned about it wont be here in another 20 years.

The youth of today dont give a fuck because they will all earn a million a week being all 'look at me' and advertising lifestyle products on instagram etc and the pound wont matter due to a cryptocurrency infuence of the worlds economy, you will still be able to draw money out in local currency no matter which country you are jetting to next but then again you will just beep everything with your phone and wait for the invoice

Whats most disturbing is just how many people have trust in the british government after twenty years of lies bullshit and number juggling and yet they still get off their arses to vote in this 'democracy' facade, they care so much about this country but still pay their council taxes which in turn gives the government the funding to keep us under oppression.

If the general public werent so fucking thick maybe people power would have a chance to make a difference

and breathe

glad that you aren’t a member of the British public, otherwise you would be ever so insulting"

Judging from the tone of his comments he's probably a Momentum supporter - best ignored!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 2 weeks ago

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YAWN, that obsession with Momentum again.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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You want to get to bed at night, then you wouldn't be so tired!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Not tired, just bored with the constant references to Momentum. This thread is supposedly about the metoo movement. I feel the same way about UKIP as you do about Momentum but I don't feel the need to mention that on every thread regardless of the topic.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Not tired, just bored with the constant references to Momentum. This thread is supposedly about the metoo movement. I feel the same way about UKIP as you do about Momentum but I don't feel the need to mention that on every thread regardless of the topic."

What??? You're weird! UKIP, should they get elected (which they won't) won't have the devastating effect on the country that the Labour Party controlled by Momentum and the likes of McCluskey will. Still, seeing as this is taking the thread off-topic I'll leave you alone with your dreams - or should that be nightmares?

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Nothing to do with me, I'm not a Momentum supporter. And be careful with your words - it's not OK to tell me that I'm weird.

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By *nubis51  (M) 2 weeks ago

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"I am sorry to say Mr Caravaggio you are wrong on two counts. "

Another one who can't read. Yes, I'm well aware that we signed up for the ECHR prior to joining the EU, but irrespective of that fact, our membership of the EU ties us into the ECHR. We cannot leave the ECHR all the while we are a member of the EU. However, once we exit the EU, we would be at liberty to resign from the ECHR if we so wished. I am suggesting that it would be a good thing to resign, and to enshrine our own version of human rights within UK law, thereby doing away with a judicial tier above our own High Court. If that's too difficult to understand, then I give up!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is the Council of Europe, a completely different body to the EU. Leaving the EU will only mean that we will not be subject to the ECJ.

FFS!!! Read my posts!! …. where do I say ECHR is part of the EU????? Our membership of the EU means we HAVE to accept ECHR rulings. Once out of the EU, we have the option to remove ourselves from the ECHR …… how difficult is that to understand?????? ….

Obviously to difficult for you. The EHCR has nothing to do with the membership of the EU. We could opt out at any time, the same way as any menber state could if they wished to.

Membership of the EU is not reliant on being a signitory of the convention.

Likewise, it is highly unlikely that any post Brexit government would recind the convention.

Is that easier for you to grasp?"

You are totally wrong. If you're a member of the EU, you are an automatic signatory to the ECHR.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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Weird how this thread has turned into yet another pin-pong match about the EU and a slanging match between the usual suspects

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By *annyboy87  (M) 7 days ago

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"Weird how this thread has turned into yet another pin-pong match about the EU and a slanging match between the usual suspects "

yes and I can’t get blamed for it this time

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 7 days ago

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"Irrespective of when we signed up to ECHR, as members of the EU we are automatically at the behest of the ECHR, all members are. Therefore, our exit from the ECHR is EVERYTHING to do with Brexit, as until that happens, we cannot divest ourselves of the clutches of the ECHR.

The ECHR has nothing to do with the EU. It is the Council of Europe, a completely different body to the EU. Leaving the EU will only mean that we will not be subject to the ECJ.

FFS!!! Read my posts!! …. where do I say ECHR is part of the EU????? Our membership of the EU means we HAVE to accept ECHR rulings. Once out of the EU, we have the option to remove ourselves from the ECHR …… how difficult is that to understand?????? ….

Obviously to difficult for you. The EHCR has nothing to do with the membership of the EU. We could opt out at any time, the same way as any menber state could if they wished to.

Membership of the EU is not reliant on being a signitory of the convention.

Likewise, it is highly unlikely that any post Brexit government would recind the convention.

Is that easier for you to grasp?

You are totally wrong. If you're a member of the EU, you are an automatic signatory to the ECHR."

Please let us all know exactly where this is stated in any of the EU treaties that we signed up to.

If you can, I'll be the first to apologize. If you cannot, please don't invent something that is only true in your mind.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 7 days ago

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"What's dangerous about it? Do you know who I was referring to then?"

Everyone who has been a member for any length of time knows whom your referring to.

The last person that suggested the same thing was hit with a lengthy timeout from the forums.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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'We dictate you obey has become the norm but because we voted for those who tell us what to do it is democratic!'

Wise words.

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By *nubis51  (M) 6 days ago

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" If you feel the need to be personal or abusive then get it off your chest"

When it comes to being abusive you're a fine one to talk - you seem incapable of posting on here without using terms of abuse. People have been suspended from these forums for less!

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 6 days ago

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This thread was about men being demonised by women and yet it's turned into yet more infighting.

There's no wonder women are starting to rule the world lol

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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"This thread was about men being demonised by women and yet it's turned into yet more infighting.

There's no wonder women are starting to rule the world lol "

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By *annyboy87  (M) 6 days ago

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"It would seem that, as usual, this forum is not a proper forum but a noticeboard for opinionated fuckwits to endlessly spout their shite and pat each other on the arse in congratulation of their likemindedness and group together on their pedestals to lambast anybody else who thinks differently.

Then they continue to glorify democracy and tory leadership whilst they speak for the uk public!

Brexit should not have been rushed through like it was without proper consideration and without any leaving deal to offer up. This government led us down shit street and used false information to sway the uncertain and yet many still cannot see in the distance is nothing but a dead end. We then need to backtrack and be led out of the predicament by the eu. For this we will pay a hefty fee and always be remembered as the cunts who couldnt find their own way home.

You think that deserves respect? Votes even?

Some people mention eu law, and rightly so, you worry how uk law will be final and you may no longer be able to run crying to the european courts of arbitration yet worry not for the way the country will be governed without a larger governing body to adhere to? There have already been certain laws and changes rushed through in recent times and they have not necessarily been for the best. This precedence set at government level has trickled down through the branches into other areas and some local councils have adopted a hardline approach to the way they do things too. We dictate you obey has become the norm but because we voted for those who tell us what to do it is democratic!

Ignore me or dont i would not care as i am not trying to influence anybody elses thoughts. I am just putting an opinion in a forum. If you feel the need to be personal or abusive then get it off your chest it would be better to call me names on here or say nasty shit in a forum because if you didnt you might do it out there, in the real world, with a less patient person, and get your shit kicked up you. Im sure your faith in government would outweigh that unfortunate scenario though, as obviously, there would be many police officers walking the beat and they would arrest the perpetrator immediately with no harm to your good selves and the british judicial system would see to it that this very bad person would do more time than Norman Stanley Fletcher!!!

I am not a dream crusher but if you are dreaming of a brighter britain you would be better off dreaming of a white christmas, and we already know itll probably be sunny then anyway "

very well said and so true especially first paragraph

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By *nubis51  (M) 6 days ago

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"It would seem that, as usual, this forum is not a proper forum but a noticeboard for opinionated fuckwits to endlessly spout their shite and pat each other on the arse in congratulation of their likemindedness and group together on their pedestals to lambast anybody else who thinks differently.

Then they continue to glorify democracy and tory leadership whilst they speak for the uk public!

Brexit should not have been rushed through like it was without proper consideration and without any leaving deal to offer up. This government led us down shit street and used false information to sway the uncertain and yet many still cannot see in the distance is nothing but a dead end. We then need to backtrack and be led out of the predicament by the eu. For this we will pay a hefty fee and always be remembered as the cunts who couldnt find their own way home.

You think that deserves respect? Votes even?

Some people mention eu law, and rightly so, you worry how uk law will be final and you may no longer be able to run crying to the european courts of arbitration yet worry not for the way the country will be governed without a larger governing body to adhere to? There have already been certain laws and changes rushed through in recent times and they have not necessarily been for the best. This precedence set at government level has trickled down through the branches into other areas and some local councils have adopted a hardline approach to the way they do things too. We dictate you obey has become the norm but because we voted for those who tell us what to do it is democratic!

Ignore me or dont i would not care as i am not trying to influence anybody elses thoughts. I am just putting an opinion in a forum. If you feel the need to be personal or abusive then get it off your chest it would be better to call me names on here or say nasty shit in a forum because if you didnt you might do it out there, in the real world, with a less patient person, and get your shit kicked up you. Im sure your faith in government would outweigh that unfortunate scenario though, as obviously, there would be many police officers walking the beat and they would arrest the perpetrator immediately with no harm to your good selves and the british judicial system would see to it that this very bad person would do more time than Norman Stanley Fletcher!!!

I am not a dream crusher but if you are dreaming of a brighter britain you would be better off dreaming of a white christmas, and we already know itll probably be sunny then anyway very well said and so true especially first paragraph "

Why am I not surprised at that last comment? However, you do yourself no favours by associating with the more unpleasant posters on here

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By *annyboy87  (M) 6 days ago

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"It would seem that, as usual, this forum is not a proper forum but a noticeboard for opinionated fuckwits to endlessly spout their shite and pat each other on the arse in congratulation of their likemindedness and group together on their pedestals to lambast anybody else who thinks differently.

Then they continue to glorify democracy and tory leadership whilst they speak for the uk public!

Brexit should not have been rushed through like it was without proper consideration and without any leaving deal to offer up. This government led us down shit street and used false information to sway the uncertain and yet many still cannot see in the distance is nothing but a dead end. We then need to backtrack and be led out of the predicament by the eu. For this we will pay a hefty fee and always be remembered as the cunts who couldnt find their own way home.

You think that deserves respect? Votes even?

Some people mention eu law, and rightly so, you worry how uk law will be final and you may no longer be able to run crying to the european courts of arbitration yet worry not for the way the country will be governed without a larger governing body to adhere to? There have already been certain laws and changes rushed through in recent times and they have not necessarily been for the best. This precedence set at government level has trickled down through the branches into other areas and some local councils have adopted a hardline approach to the way they do things too. We dictate you obey has become the norm but because we voted for those who tell us what to do it is democratic!

Ignore me or dont i would not care as i am not trying to influence anybody elses thoughts. I am just putting an opinion in a forum. If you feel the need to be personal or abusive then get it off your chest it would be better to call me names on here or say nasty shit in a forum because if you didnt you might do it out there, in the real world, with a less patient person, and get your shit kicked up you. Im sure your faith in government would outweigh that unfortunate scenario though, as obviously, there would be many police officers walking the beat and they would arrest the perpetrator immediately with no harm to your good selves and the british judicial system would see to it that this very bad person would do more time than Norman Stanley Fletcher!!!

I am not a dream crusher but if you are dreaming of a brighter britain you would be better off dreaming of a white christmas, and we already know itll probably be sunny then anyway very well said and so true especially first paragraph

Why am I not surprised at that last comment? However, you do yourself no favours by associating with the more unpleasant posters on here "

well that’s your opinion and entitled to it but you have been very unpleasant yourself on many occasions

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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"It would seem that, as usual, this forum is not a proper forum but a noticeboard for opinionated fuckwits to endlessly spout their shite and pat each other on the arse in congratulation of their likemindedness and group together on their pedestals to lambast anybody else who thinks differently.

Then they continue to glorify democracy and tory leadership whilst they speak for the uk public!

Brexit should not have been rushed through like it was without proper consideration and without any leaving deal to offer up. This government led us down shit street and used false information to sway the uncertain and yet many still cannot see in the distance is nothing but a dead end. We then need to backtrack and be led out of the predicament by the eu. For this we will pay a hefty fee and always be remembered as the cunts who couldnt find their own way home.

You think that deserves respect? Votes even?

Some people mention eu law, and rightly so, you worry how uk law will be final and you may no longer be able to run crying to the european courts of arbitration yet worry not for the way the country will be governed without a larger governing body to adhere to? There have already been certain laws and changes rushed through in recent times and they have not necessarily been for the best. This precedence set at government level has trickled down through the branches into other areas and some local councils have adopted a hardline approach to the way they do things too. We dictate you obey has become the norm but because we voted for those who tell us what to do it is democratic!

Ignore me or dont i would not care as i am not trying to influence anybody elses thoughts. I am just putting an opinion in a forum. If you feel the need to be personal or abusive then get it off your chest it would be better to call me names on here or say nasty shit in a forum because if you didnt you might do it out there, in the real world, with a less patient person, and get your shit kicked up you. Im sure your faith in government would outweigh that unfortunate scenario though, as obviously, there would be many police officers walking the beat and they would arrest the perpetrator immediately with no harm to your good selves and the british judicial system would see to it that this very bad person would do more time than Norman Stanley Fletcher!!!

I am not a dream crusher but if you are dreaming of a brighter britain you would be better off dreaming of a white christmas, and we already know itll probably be sunny then anyway very well said and so true especially first paragraph

Why am I not surprised at that last comment? However, you do yourself no favours by associating with the more unpleasant posters on here "

Hmmmmm

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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And this is all to do with the 'monstrous regiment of women' trying to ruin men's lives/careers with alleged cases of 'sexual misconduct' way back in the mists of time

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By *nubis51  (M) 6 days ago

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" well that’s your opinion and entitled to it but you have been very unpleasant yourself on many occasions "

The word you're looking for is 'forthright' not 'unpleasant' and as you know most of it was brought about by your own behaviour. At least I never use the language and attitude of the individual you so readily agreed with. He's entitled to a differing opinion like everyone else, particularly as this is a political forum, but not in the way he so insultingly put it across.

Furthermore, we've been reminded in the past by the Mods that these forums are supposed to be fun, but when you read the sort of comments that he posted they become anything but. They deserve a robust response, but that only leads to a suspension by the Mods, so hopefully they'll deal with him!

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By *nubis51  (M) 6 days ago

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"And this is all to do with the 'monstrous regiment of women' trying to ruin men's lives/careers with alleged cases of 'sexual misconduct' way back in the mists of time "

If you read back through the comments you can see where it started going off-topic and who took it in that direction after someone made a perfectly reasonable remark about the ECHR.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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"And this is all to do with the 'monstrous regiment of women' trying to ruin men's lives/careers with alleged cases of 'sexual misconduct' way back in the mists of time

If you read back through the comments you can see where it started going off-topic and who took it in that direction after someone made a perfectly reasonable remark about the ECHR."

That is not quite true - it was the remark about the ECHR and Brexit that took the thread off-topic.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 6 days ago

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The word you're looking for is 'forthright' not 'unpleasant'

No the word I was definitely looking for was unpleasant and I wasn’t saying towards myself was saying to others on many occasions

I was agreeing with what he was saying as it’s of my opinion that if you take away the insultive words to which I don’t agree with but rest of post I do as it hit the nail on the head

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By *annyboy87  (M) 6 days ago

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" well that’s your opinion and entitled to it but you have been very unpleasant yourself on many occasions

The word you're looking for is 'forthright' not 'unpleasant' and as you know most of it was brought about by your own behaviour. At least I never use the language and attitude of the individual you so readily agreed with. He's entitled to a differing opinion like everyone else, particularly as this is a political forum, but not in the way he so insultingly put it across.

Furthermore, we've been reminded in the past by the Mods that these forums are supposed to be fun, but when you read the sort of comments that he posted they become anything but. They deserve a robust response, but that only leads to a suspension by the Mods, so hopefully they'll deal with him!"

The word you're looking for is 'forthright' not 'unpleasant'

No the word I was definitely looking for was unpleasant and I wasn’t saying towards myself was saying to others on many occasions

I was agreeing with what he was saying as it’s of my opinion that if you take away the insultive words to which I don’t agree with but rest of post I do as it hit the nail on the head

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By *nubis51  (M) 6 days ago

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"And this is all to do with the 'monstrous regiment of women' trying to ruin men's lives/careers with alleged cases of 'sexual misconduct' way back in the mists of time

If you read back through the comments you can see where it started going off-topic and who took it in that direction after someone made a perfectly reasonable remark about the ECHR.

That is not quite true - it was the remark about the ECHR and Brexit that took the thread off-topic."

Only if you take it out of context. However, the remark was quite relevant with regards to the original subject matter of the thread. The passing reference to Brexit was also part of that post and not specifically intended to start another argument about the rights and wrongs of it. That's how I read it anyway.

'If we carry on at this rate, we won't be able to speak with anyone else, let alone touch them, for fear of retribution by some crazy law or another. Maybe after Brexit, it might be worth our while opting out of the European Court of Human Rights … an organisation that has an awful lot to answer for regarding the nanny state that exists nowadays"

I'd say the above quotation from the post is perfectly relevant to the thread, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, so in no way did it take the thread off topic - the next comment started that!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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Misread again. The next post was a sarcastic side-swipe at criticising human rights legislation and the backlash against metoo and women's rights by rich white males who feel threatened by anyone who doesn't believe they are innately superior and right. I know because I wrote it

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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"And this is all to do with the 'monstrous regiment of women' trying to ruin men's lives/careers with alleged cases of 'sexual misconduct' way back in the mists of time "

Evidently not

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By *nubis51  (M) 5 days ago

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"Misread again. The next post was a sarcastic side-swipe at criticising human rights legislation and the backlash against metoo and women's rights by rich white males who feel threatened by anyone who doesn't believe they are innately superior and right. I know because I wrote it "

I know you did, which is why I indirectly identified you as the one that took the thread off-topic! Like a lot of these sort of campaigns, this #metoo nonsense is going to attract all the usual suspects that feel the need to jump on any passing bandwagon.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 5 days ago

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I'm not an any bandwagon. For over forty years I have supported a woman's right to reject unwanted attention from men. I have yet to read or hear a single persuasive argument to make me change my mind. I do not regard the metoo movement as nonsense.

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By *nubis51  (M) 5 days ago

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"I'm not an any bandwagon. For over forty years I have supported a woman's right to reject unwanted attention from men. I have yet to read or hear a single persuasive argument to make me change my mind. I do not regard the metoo movement as nonsense."

Nobody's accusing you of jumping on a bandwagon, rather the point I was making was about those that are likely to be using the #metoo movement to further their own agenda, and many feminists out there are obvious man-haters - misandrists to use the proper word. As for those jumping on bandwagons, the Jimmy Savile case was a good example. While he was undoubtedly guilty there were no doubt a lot of people that claimed to have been assaulted by him when in actual fact he did no such thing. Their behaviour devalues the claims of the genuine victims, although because he was already dead it wasn't possible to put him before the courts to examine those claims. As was mentioned in the original post on here there seems to be a growing assumption that anyone accused of sexual impropriety with a woman is automatically guilty, which leaves the door open for dozens of claims to be made, regardless of whether or not there is any truth behind them. In addition, don't forget that once an alleged offender has been identified in the press or on social media he's immediately condemned in the eyes of the public and even if he's subsequently found to be innocent the suspicion and stigma remains.

Personally I'm still of the opinion that many of these accusations have one driving force behind them - that of 'Compensation' Maybe there should be a ruling that if you make a sexual abuse claim then you waive the right to any subsequent compensation unless that claim is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in court. That should hopefully sort some of the wheat from the chaff!

Anyway, go back and read the first three posts in this thread again and see if we aren't right.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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"I'm not an any bandwagon. For over forty years I have supported a woman's right to reject unwanted attention from men. I have yet to read or hear a single persuasive argument to make me change my mind. I do not regard the metoo movement as nonsense."

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting the whole of the metoo movement is nonsense. The problem here is that it has become extreme to question anything they do. The Canadian author Margaret Attwood was attacked for simply questioning why they thought they should replace due process and become judge jury and executioner in social media.

Here are two quotes from her:

“If the legal system is bypassed because it is seen as ineffectual, what will take its place? Who will be the new power brokers?”

“In times of extremes, extremists win. Their ideology becomes a religion, anyone who doesn’t puppet their views is seen as an apostate, a heretic or a traitor, and moderates in the middle are annihilated.”

To question the motives and modus operandi of the metoo movement does not mean you support inappropriate behaviour it just means you support fairness for all.

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