New here? Register in under one minute   Already a member? Login366318 members (10 yesterday), private messages


cottaging.co.uk > Forums > Politics > why is they talk of second referendum? 2nd

 
See newest message in thread

why is they talk of second referendum? 2nd

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Why is there constant talk of a second referendum

This country voted leave and leave we should even if it's with no deal

Mrs may is basically wasting her time going to Brussels unless she asks for amendments most would be happy with or tell them alright we leave with no deal

Then you see EU change they stance

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *illanihole  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

A second vote is what many are calling for in parliament. However most of those are Remoaners hoping to halt proceedings and recind the article 50 declaration, Leaving us locked in the E.U.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *hemaligfreund   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

A confirmation vote is something your very own Jacob Rees Mogg suggested would be a good idea once the terms of departure are known. They are now known, and don't look good for the country. The government won an election in 2015, held a second vote 2 years later. They elected a leader in 2016, and have just narrowly avoided a second vote, so why not have another confirmation vote on an issue that will cause a lot of damage to the economy and remove our rights, freedoms and protections now the facts are known? Are you scared it won't go your way? After all, you lot refused to respect the result of the 1975 vote which had a far greater margin to remain part of the union than you managed to gather to leave with a campaign of outright lies...

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I don't relish the thought of another referendum. More acrimonious campaigning and more blatant lies from both camps. However it might solve this current impasse. People may have changed there minds plus the composition of the electorate will have shifted with several hundred thousand older voters having passed away and a slightly higher number of young people now eligible to vote.

The question is what would the referendum ask. A deal versus a no deal or another in/out choice. You can only have two choices in a referendum as three would completely muddy the waters.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I don't relish the thought of another referendum. More acrimonious campaigning and more blatant lies from both camps. However it might solve this current impasse. People may have changed there minds plus the composition of the electorate will have shifted with several hundred thousand older voters having passed away and a slightly higher number of young people now eligible to vote.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

The question is what would the referendum ask. A deal versus a no deal or another in/out choice. You can only have two choices in a referendum as three would completely muddy the waters."

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I don't relish the thought of another referendum. More acrimonious campaigning and more blatant lies from both camps. However it might solve this current impasse. People may have changed there minds plus the composition of the electorate will have shifted with several hundred thousand older voters having passed away and a slightly higher number of young people now eligible to vote.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

The question is what would the referendum ask. A deal versus a no deal or another in/out choice. You can only have two choices in a referendum as three would completely muddy the waters."

Sorry about the above ….. I'll start again.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

As for the "old people have died" …. c'mon, that's really clutching at straws. Old people will always be dying, by your reasoning that means we should have a continuing referendum farce every couple of years???? Ridiculous! I do believe that the referendum was hailed by those that offered it as a "once in a lifetime opportunity". Now, call me pernickety, but it could be argued from a legal point of view, that introductory phraseology was part of the ground rules for the referendum and therefore any further referendum on the same subject could not be allowed...…. blame my legal education for that one ….

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Okay distortions of the truth on both sides. Can't remember them all but there were plenty. I stopped watching all the debates etc leading up to the referendum because I got to the point of not believing what either side said.

This is the single most divisive issue this country has faced since goodness knows when. Possibly since the mid 17th century civil wars. There is never going to be a right or wrong answer [apart from that claimed by a handful of extremists on both sides] Most people just want to get on with there lives with as little fuss and disruption as possible.

The biggest opponents of a 2nd referendum are the ardent Brexiteers because they fear they would lose. Then they would start yelling that they were cheated and be demanding a 3rd. From all reports this morning it does not look like anyone in the EU is prepared to re-open negotiations and that will not just be with Mrs May but with any would-be PM from whatever political group.

For the record I am no fan of the EU. I wish the whole corrupt 'empire' would implode and that we could go back to something sensible like EFTA.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

As I think I said at the time the worst we could do is ask the great unwashed.

I know people who voted on issues that have nothing to do with the actual EU.

Immigration is a big one, I know one guy thought it would stop ILLEGAL Imigrations FFS. We have others moaning about Indians etc from Commonwealth countries.

Free movement same, thing we haven't signed Schengen.

AS no one knew on either side what might happen both sides did a Trump and gave the worst case and whilst they didn't lie they just inffered things and let people make their own stories up.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I don't relish the thought of another referendum. More acrimonious campaigning and more blatant lies from both camps. However it might solve this current impasse. People may have changed there minds plus the composition of the electorate will have shifted with several hundred thousand older voters having passed away and a slightly higher number of young people now eligible to vote.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

The question is what would the referendum ask. A deal versus a no deal or another in/out choice. You can only have two choices in a referendum as three would completely muddy the waters.

Sorry about the above ….. I'll start again.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

As for the "old people have died" …. c'mon, that's really clutching at straws. Old people will always be dying, by your reasoning that means we should have a continuing referendum farce every couple of years???? Ridiculous! I do believe that the referendum was hailed by those that offered it as a "once in a lifetime opportunity". Now, call me pernickety, but it could be argued from a legal point of view, that introductory phraseology was part of the ground rules for the referendum and therefore any further referendum on the same subject could not be allowed...…. blame my legal education for that one …. "

very well said Mr C

I doubt we all will get told these lies leavers have told, as there was none

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*kws By *kws  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

For anybody's information the referendum we had in 75 was for the common market, nothing to do with the corrupt EU, for a trading confirmation with the europeans. We have NEVER been asked to vote on if we should enter the EU, Ted Heath, pm, got 2 yatchs for taking us into the EU, Morning Cloud 1 and Morning Cloud 2. Don't forget that the EU blackmailed eire to accept the euro. But some people were either not around of have short memories.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess."

You are asking a question I doubt you will see many informative answers for. I want to leave the EU but I do not want to leave without lengthy negotiations to get a good deal which should have taken place before we even began to jump ship with no life belt.

I don't want to give up trade deals. I don't want complicated travel within Europe. I don't want to forego the food quality regulations which protect us. I don't want to give up the regulations controlling working conditions. I don't want to give up the health and safety standards. I think we all know that left to our own devices all these will suffer.

The saddest thing is without these quality controls it is the ordinary working class person who will suffer the most. The same ordinary working class person that was using the Mail and social media to help make their decisions. They wanted freedom but not if it meant losing their protection.

Thank goodness for Mrs May as she seems to be the only one on the side of you and me and the ordinary guy.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *ufferUK  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Is this 'deal' what you think you voted for?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess.

You are asking a question I doubt you will see many informative answers for. I want to leave the EU but I do not want to leave without lengthy negotiations to get a good deal which should have taken place before we even began to jump ship with no life belt.

I don't want to give up trade deals. I don't want complicated travel within Europe. I don't want to forego the food quality regulations which protect us. I don't want to give up the regulations controlling working conditions. I don't want to give up the health and safety standards. I think we all know that left to our own devices all these will suffer.

The saddest thing is without these quality controls it is the ordinary working class person who will suffer the most. The same ordinary working class person that was using the Mail and social media to help make their decisions. They wanted freedom but not if it meant losing their protection.

Thank goodness for Mrs May as she seems to be the only one on the side of you and me and the ordinary guy. "

Haven't you worked it out by now, the EU have taken a leaf out of de Gaulle's book, they just say "non" to anything that UK suggests. Why is that? because we started the negotiations from completely the wrong place, and they have had the upper hand ever since. It would have been so easy, and any half decent negotiating team would have adopted this stance. WE say upfront that we're leaving on 29/3/2019, what deal does the EU want from us? Come and talk to us when you have something to offer, otherwise its bye bye and hello tariffs. You HAVE to put the onus on the other side and keep it there, throughout. That's exactly what they have done to us, and its the remainers in our midst who bought it about. David Davis admitted as much, last night on Question Time. As time passes, I'm more and more convinced that remain has deliberately sabotaged Brexit ….. that tells you all you need to know about the sincerity of the political class. Fat salaries and pensions is all that really concern the majority. Have you not noticed that its those of independent means who invariably are the ones who tend to stray from the "party line"?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess."

this unholy mess is not down to those who voted

It's down to how it is being handled Mrs may deal could well be a lame deal or wrong deal

But this unholy mess is down to cry babies that are the remainers especially those in government they will stoop as low as possible to get there way and get another referendum in hope it's a different result

As they know with all this backstabbing the remainers have been doing along with all scare mongering. People will voted remain just to get some peace from it all

So that's the reason we are in an unholy mess not down to those who voted whether leave or remain

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess.

You are asking a question I doubt you will see many informative answers for. I want to leave the EU but I do not want to leave without lengthy negotiations to get a good deal which should have taken place before we even began to jump ship with no life belt.

I don't want to give up trade deals. I don't want complicated travel within Europe. I don't want to forego the food quality regulations which protect us. I don't want to give up the regulations controlling working conditions. I don't want to give up the health and safety standards. I think we all know that left to our own devices all these will suffer.

The saddest thing is without these quality controls it is the ordinary working class person who will suffer the most. The same ordinary working class person that was using the Mail and social media to help make their decisions. They wanted freedom but not if it meant losing their protection.

Thank goodness for Mrs May as she seems to be the only one on the side of you and me and the ordinary guy. "

are you having a laugh

Mrs may one side of us all.

She knew nobody on our side of pond would agree with her deal from start, knew from start it would not get through parliament, but waited to last minute to pull plug, knew EU won't redo deal aswell.

If she was for the people she would have listened to her very own mp's when deal was first drafted and maybe tweak if needed, which looks like the case now, but she didn't listen and people resigning because of it all saying she just doesn't listen.

She as been extremely stubborn for one obvious reason she has an agenda for us to remain not leave

So no she is not only person for us Joe public

If she really is bring on armageddon it maybe better

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *illanihole  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Had preparations been set out and put in place 2 years ago ago for no deal,we would have found things easier to sort out. Because of headless chickens and idiots in paliament we now find ourselves where we are . Trading negotiations start AFTER we leave so why we didnt just turn our backs and say lets trade on WTO rules i dont know.

May could not negotiate her way out of a paper bag!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"

May could not negotiate her way out of a paper bag!"

So who do you think could? Boris has all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop when it comes to diplomacy. Gove is too temperamental. Davis too lazy. As for the opposition no doubt Corbyn's idea of negotiating would be standing outside EU Headquarters waving a placard.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Had preparations been set out and put in place 2 years ago ago for no deal,we would have found things easier to sort out. Because of headless chickens and idiots in paliament we now find ourselves where we are . Trading negotiations start AFTER we leave so why we didnt just turn our backs and say lets trade on WTO rules i dont know.

May could not negotiate her way out of a paper bag!"

could not agree more

But they had more important things to sort out first like making sure that their precious party was in power for alot long

Or that could have just been Mrs may mindset

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"

May could not negotiate her way out of a paper bag!

So who do you think could? Boris has all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop when it comes to diplomacy. Gove is too temperamental. Davis too lazy. As for the opposition no doubt Corbyn's idea of negotiating would be standing outside EU Headquarters waving a placard."

well there is javid he do job properly

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"

May could not negotiate her way out of a paper bag!

So who do you think could? Boris has all the subtlety of a bull in a china shop when it comes to diplomacy. Gove is too temperamental. Davis too lazy. As for the opposition no doubt Corbyn's idea of negotiating would be standing outside EU Headquarters waving a placard."

well there is javid he do job properly

I don't like Corbyn at all but don't think he has incompentant as Mrs may

Anyhow what's Corbyn got to do with picking anyone that could do better job than amateur Mrs may

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I mentioned Corbyn because he is forever criticising Mrs May and reckons he could do better. Yet he never says what he could do and I rather doubt he would know where to start given his track record as a serial protestor and a constant thorn in the side of his own party when they were in government.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I mentioned Corbyn because he is forever criticising Mrs May and reckons he could do better. Yet he never says what he could do and I rather doubt he would know where to start given his track record as a serial protestor and a constant thorn in the side of his own party when they were in government."

may be he doesn't say what he'd do better or anyother mp's

As they all know Mrs may to well and know what she is for uturning and she probably take the ideas on board and try to take all credit when they work

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Unbelievable.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*nyx1062 By *nyx1062  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

this is a total set up from the day the government lost the vote on the referendum,they can't stand that the people dare defy them and vote to leave the unelected European zone,they have made it so difficult to get a deal,they think by leaving it to a no deal scenario they will get a second referendum and people will be so fed up and tired of all the hassle and arguments that they will give in and vote to stay in Europe,that is what the did with Ireland and another country,try,try,try again and make it so frightening to leave,they will get the result they want,that is how the establishment works,and that includes the tories,labour party,lib/dems,the dup,the Scottish nationaists,they are all the same

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"this is a total set up from the day the government lost the vote on the referendum,they can't stand that the people dare defy them and vote to leave the unelected European zone,they have made it so difficult to get a deal,they think by leaving it to a no deal scenario they will get a second referendum and people will be so fed up and tired of all the hassle and arguments that they will give in and vote to stay in Europe,that is what the did with Ireland and another country,try,try,try again and make it so frightening to leave,they will get the result they want,that is how the establishment works,and that includes the tories,labour party,lib/dems,the dup,the Scottish nationaists,they are all the same "

you 200% correct there

Our votes don't count unless it suits them

Now can't the certain few see what Mrs May's agenda is let's remind you to remain

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *jknight  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

she should tell them to get fucked and just leave

they will soon come groveling back

a lot of the people shouting on here don't even know what it was like before we went into the eu

those that want to stay can all ways go and live over there we can well do with out them

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

No we can't do without them as many of them are highly educated, hard-working and necessary to our economy.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"No we can't do without them as many of them are highly educated, hard-working and necessary to our economy."

yes we can do with out them

And if there is not enough one simple solution educate our own

If our schools aren't good enough

Another simple solution invest and make them good enough

We could use the money that gets given to EU to do so

We don't need EU like a baby needs a nappy rash

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"No we can't do without them as many of them are highly educated, hard-working and necessary to our economy.yes we can do with out them

And if there is not enough one simple solution educate our own

If our schools aren't good enough

Another simple solution invest and make them good enough

We could use the money that gets given to EU to do so

We don't need EU like a baby needs a nappy rash"

Looks like somoenes been on the sauce!!!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Immigration was probably the main issue that swung a lot of people into voting leave. It is a matter that concerns me as this is a small country and it is getting over-crowded. However the problem is more to do with so-called refugees and economic migrants from outside the EU than working migrants from within.

A lot of EU migrants--especially the Poles---have been a godsend to certain industries such as farming, healthcare and hospitality. They cheerfully do jobs that a lot of Brits just don't seem to want to do. We also need professionals. With the best will in the world you cannot train an unemployed person to be a doctor if they have to got the ability or willingness to do so.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

The statistics show that 93% of EU immigrants contribute to the economy and take nothing out in benefits. But facts like that are not palatable to xenophobes.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The statistics show that 93% of EU immigrants contribute to the economy and take nothing out in benefits. But facts like that are not palatable to xenophobes."

Stop being silly and quoting facts, in this hwole farce that must be one of the first ones

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Where Brexit is concerned facts are not allowed. They just get in the way.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ambedford2  (M) 15 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

the eu is like a cult

countries follow them even though its bad for them only the eu fatcats get any benefit

I have seen every day the lazy bastads drunk in bars around the eu hq wearin their passes

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By  *ingmaster1    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

NO

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By  *ingmaster1    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Is this 'deal' what you think you voted for?"

NO

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Is this 'deal' what you think you voted for?

"

The 17 plus million who voted to leave did so for many different reasons and probably wanted very different conclusions to our departure. Some want a hard Brexit whilst others, like myself, would prefer a softer more orderly Brexit which, basically, the current deal offers. There is no pleasing everyone and certainly no single reason.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Her "plan" does not give Brexit, and she knows it. I hope she knows it, otherwise she's the most stupid person on this planet. I'm hoping now that she has been game playing all along. However, I have to say, that there was a far easier way to achieve an exit on WTO terms than the one she adopted. That said, given the number of MPs who clearly see nothing wrong in defying the will of the people, it may have been good tactics to keep them hopping about from one idea to another … it certainly helped the time pass ...

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Her "plan" does not give Brexit, and she knows it. I hope she knows it, otherwise she's the most stupid person on this planet. I'm hoping now that she has been game playing all along. However, I have to say, that there was a far easier way to achieve an exit on WTO terms than the one she adopted. That said, given the number of MPs who clearly see nothing wrong in defying the will of the people, it may have been good tactics to keep them hopping about from one idea to another … it certainly helped the time pass ... "

well it certainly obvious she has some kind of agenda

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *ljcleeve   profile verified by photo (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Her "plan" does not give Brexit, and she knows it. I hope she knows it, otherwise she's the most stupid person on this planet. I'm hoping now that she has been game playing all along. However, I have to say, that there was a far easier way to achieve an exit on WTO terms than the one she adopted. That said, given the number of MPs who clearly see nothing wrong in defying the will of the people, it may have been good tactics to keep them hopping about from one idea to another … it certainly helped the time pass ... well it certainly obvious she has some kind of agenda "

I'm glad that you said "agenda" as opposed to plan as she doesn't appear to have any plan except to confuse everyone while she keeps repeating the same speeches (each tailored to appease the people she is talking to at the time) as she muddies the water for everyone.

Whatever happened to diverting the billions we pay the EU into the NHS?

Whatever happened to cutting immigration?

Whatever happened to regaining our sovereignty after two years?

Need I go on?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

The country is divided and the electorate and their representative MPs are completely at odds with each other.

Opposition parties are not credible or joined up. There are no honourable alternative candidates who could unite the Tories any better than Mrs May.

An impossible task was set, to leave the EU and be better off or the same.

No preparation at all was made for a leave decision.

Mrs May has had to try to square the circle by negotiating a deal that fulfills the reasons why a marginal majority voted Brexit, with minimum detrimental impact on the economy.

Against all odds she has negotiated a deal for withdrawal which would enable us to move on and start negotiating the final position.

All the while there has been fierce pressure to make progress by the leave faction, and concerted efforts to undermine negotiations from the remain faction.

One of the criticisms made by the EU is that the UK does not state what it wants and that is because there is no consensus on the matter, only extreme polarisation.

I don't believe any party, or Prime Minister, would have done a better job in the face of such an extreme polarisation.

It's not dissimilar to the Northern Ireland situation before the Good Friday Agreement except on a much larger scale, two sides bitter and intractable locked in an impasse.

There will have to be compromise eventually.

Our representatives across the board should be ashamed of themselves.

The deal should be agreed now and we move on to the really important negotiation.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The country is divided and the electorate and their representative MPs are completely at odds with each other.

Opposition parties are not credible or joined up. There are no honourable alternative candidates who could unite the Tories any better than Mrs May.

An impossible task was set, to leave the EU and be better off or the same.

No preparation at all was made for a leave decision.

Mrs May has had to try to square the circle by negotiating a deal that fulfills the reasons why a marginal majority voted Brexit, with minimum detrimental impact on the economy.

Against all odds she has negotiated a deal for withdrawal which would enable us to move on and start negotiating the final position.

All the while there has been fierce pressure to make progress by the leave faction, and concerted efforts to undermine negotiations from the remain faction.

One of the criticisms made by the EU is that the UK does not state what it wants and that is because there is no consensus on the matter, only extreme polarisation.

I don't believe any party, or Prime Minister, would have done a better job in the face of such an extreme polarisation.

It's not dissimilar to the Northern Ireland situation before the Good Friday Agreement except on a much larger scale, two sides bitter and intractable locked in an impasse.

There will have to be compromise eventually.

Our representatives across the board should be ashamed of themselves.

The deal should be agreed now and we move on to the really important negotiation.

"

I couldn't agree more and although half the country dont want it, myself included I also think they are sick of the situation and just want to move on and out.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*s55 By *s55  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

So true the MPs from all party's should be getting together instead that tosser Corbyn is trying to use the situation to undermine the Government for his own political agenda instead maybe help building a future UK not trying to return us back to the dark days of the 70s

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The country is divided and the electorate and their representative MPs are completely at odds with each other.

Opposition parties are not credible or joined up. There are no honourable alternative candidates who could unite the Tories any better than Mrs May.

An impossible task was set, to leave the EU and be better off or the same.

No preparation at all was made for a leave decision.

Mrs May has had to try to square the circle by negotiating a deal that fulfills the reasons why a marginal majority voted Brexit, with minimum detrimental impact on the economy.

Against all odds she has negotiated a deal for withdrawal which would enable us to move on and start negotiating the final position.

All the while there has been fierce pressure to make progress by the leave faction, and concerted efforts to undermine negotiations from the remain faction.

One of the criticisms made by the EU is that the UK does not state what it wants and that is because there is no consensus on the matter, only extreme polarisation.

I don't believe any party, or Prime Minister, would have done a better job in the face of such an extreme polarisation.

It's not dissimilar to the Northern Ireland situation before the Good Friday Agreement except on a much larger scale, two sides bitter and intractable locked in an impasse.

There will have to be compromise eventually.

Our representatives across the board should be ashamed of themselves.

The deal should be agreed now and we move on to the really important negotiation.

"

Well said.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out."

totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Her "plan" does not give Brexit, and she knows it. I hope she knows it, otherwise she's the most stupid person on this planet. I'm hoping now that she has been game playing all along. However, I have to say, that there was a far easier way to achieve an exit on WTO terms than the one she adopted. That said, given the number of MPs who clearly see nothing wrong in defying the will of the people, it may have been good tactics to keep them hopping about from one idea to another … it certainly helped the time pass ... well it certainly obvious she has some kind of agenda

I'm glad that you said "agenda" as opposed to plan as she doesn't appear to have any plan except to confuse everyone while she keeps repeating the same speeches (each tailored to appease the people she is talking to at the time) as she muddies the water for everyone.

Whatever happened to diverting the billions we pay the EU into the NHS?

Whatever happened to cutting immigration?

Whatever happened to regaining our sovereignty after two years?

Need I go on? "

I say agenda

As it's so damn obvious something is going on either delaying it so there is no choice to choose her precious deal because time as run out

Or make such a mess a second referendum is only option

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

https://youtu.be/6sGH_v1mDEE. Watch this

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind"

I don't support Brexit, the Tories or May but I dispassionately acknowledge that none of those howling on the sidelines could have done the impossible job any better. Getting rid of May will do absolutely nothing to clear up the unholy mess created by those who voted leave.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind

I don't support Brexit, the Tories or May but I dispassionately acknowledge that none of those howling on the sidelines could have done the impossible job any better. Getting rid of May will do absolutely nothing to clear up the unholy mess created by those who voted leave."

but you remainers are so quick to put blame on those who voted leave.

But it's as obvious as black being black, white being white it's not the voters fault at all

If anything it's the remainers in government all parties that is causing all this unholy mess. Not any of those who voted

Those who voted are they putting deal together for exit?

NO

So blame firmly is on Mrs May's door step and anyone else involved with this exit process

Not the voters

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind

I don't support Brexit, the Tories or May but I dispassionately acknowledge that none of those howling on the sidelines could have done the impossible job any better. Getting rid of May will do absolutely nothing to clear up the unholy mess created by those who voted leave.but you remainers are so quick to put blame on those who voted leave.

But it's as obvious as black being black, white being white it's not the voters fault at all

If anything it's the remainers in government all parties that is causing all this unholy mess. Not any of those who voted

Those who voted are they putting deal together for exit?

NO

So blame firmly is on Mrs May's door step and anyone else involved with this exit process

Not the voters "

FFS we get it, its Mays fault. Now hasn't that just made the whole situation go away!!!!!!!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Perhaps we can blame the voters. What were the real reason why so many voted to leave? I listened to many discussions on the subject and I mean in real life not just on tv and social media. As well as those who genuinely disliked the way the EU is run and thought we could manage our own affairs better, there was also a mix of xenophobia and even a rather petty dislike of David Cameron. I voted to leave which is something I rather regret now. I admit I voted more with my heart than my head. I don't like the bureaucratic way the EU is run and I felt we were gradually heading towards a United States of Europe. I also think the EU has expanded too rapidly welcoming every Tom, Dick and Harry on board whether they have anything worthwhile to offer or not. Perhaps we would have done better to have stayed and tried to reform it from within.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *poty   profile verified by photo (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Mrs May was a Remainer. She is now taking us out . So she is doing what she thought was the wrong thing to do. How mad as that. She should of stood down and let a exit MP become the PM.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Perhaps we can blame the voters. What were the real reason why so many voted to leave? I listened to many discussions on the subject and I mean in real life not just on tv and social media. As well as those who genuinely disliked the way the EU is run and thought we could manage our own affairs better, there was also a mix of xenophobia and even a rather petty dislike of David Cameron. I voted to leave which is something I rather regret now. I admit I voted more with my heart than my head. I don't like the bureaucratic way the EU is run and I felt we were gradually heading towards a United States of Europe. I also think the EU has expanded too rapidly welcoming every Tom, Dick and Harry on board whether they have anything worthwhile to offer or not. Perhaps we would have done better to have stayed and tried to reform it from within."

I think the EU gathered as many into their "gang" to give them a bigger clout in the world.

Now, this might have given them bigger clout, but they've just diluted the quality of the EU. There's so many poor economy countries taking out of the pot that I think any concept of changing the EU from within would meet with firm rejection EVEN if we had strong leadership/representation.

Given the current state of the UK Government, we'll be lucky to escape Brexit with our lives, let alone any dignity.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Perhaps we can blame the voters. What were the real reason why so many voted to leave? I listened to many discussions on the subject and I mean in real life not just on tv and social media. As well as those who genuinely disliked the way the EU is run and thought we could manage our own affairs better, there was also a mix of xenophobia and even a rather petty dislike of David Cameron. I voted to leave which is something I rather regret now. I admit I voted more with my heart than my head. I don't like the bureaucratic way the EU is run and I felt we were gradually heading towards a United States of Europe. I also think the EU has expanded too rapidly welcoming every Tom, Dick and Harry on board whether they have anything worthwhile to offer or not. Perhaps we would have done better to have stayed and tried to reform it from within.

I think the EU gathered as many into their "gang" to give them a bigger clout in the world.

Now, this might have given them bigger clout, but they've just diluted the quality of the EU. There's so many poor economy countries taking out of the pot that I think any concept of changing the EU from within would meet with firm rejection EVEN if we had strong leadership/representation.

Given the current state of the UK Government, we'll be lucky to escape Brexit with our lives, let alone any dignity."

I think we've already lost our dignity and now have to prepare for the social and economic upheaval ahead. The amateur 'economists' who are rejecting all the projections from experts in the field are living in a fantasy world. Rather like driving in the wrong direction on a motorway and believing 'this will be OK because I want it to be OK'. There is a dangerous power vacuum at the moment and that is usually a rich breeding ground for the far right.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

wasn't there an Austrian born German Chancellor who fed upon negativity?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism."

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind

I don't support Brexit, the Tories or May but I dispassionately acknowledge that none of those howling on the sidelines could have done the impossible job any better. Getting rid of May will do absolutely nothing to clear up the unholy mess created by those who voted leave.but you remainers are so quick to put blame on those who voted leave.

But it's as obvious as black being black, white being white it's not the voters fault at all

If anything it's the remainers in government all parties that is causing all this unholy mess. Not any of those who voted

Those who voted are they putting deal together for exit?

NO

So blame firmly is on Mrs May's door step and anyone else involved with this exit process

Not the voters

FFS we get it, its Mays fault. Now hasn't that just made the whole situation go away!!!!!!!"

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *tsuptoyou  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Perhaps we can blame the voters. What were the real reason why so many voted to leave? I listened to many discussions on the subject and I mean in real life not just on tv and social media. As well as those who genuinely disliked the way the EU is run and thought we could manage our own affairs better, there was also a mix of xenophobia and even a rather petty dislike of David Cameron. I voted to leave which is something I rather regret now. I admit I voted more with my heart than my head. I don't like the bureaucratic way the EU is run and I felt we were gradually heading towards a United States of Europe. I also think the EU has expanded too rapidly welcoming every Tom, Dick and Harry on board whether they have anything worthwhile to offer or not. Perhaps we would have done better to have stayed and tried to reform it from within."

I agree with you as for your vote you did what you thought right at the time the E.U has got too big but they don't listen to anyone I thought same as you if we stayed could we make things better from the inside we would have a voice but it would have been very small if only they listened to reason might go along way

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"she's hopeless.

The only reason she/the Conservatives are still there is because Labour is even more hopeless.

She is making the UK look like idiots.

You have to consider her background - d'ter of a vicar. I regard all religious representatives as being very thick skinned (they are trying to sell a deal of a dream to people with no proof whatsoever) and this is obviously now part of her psyche. She is oblivious of any influence and insensitive to current events.

She is unfit to be Prime Minister. If there was any viabile alternative, I'd be voting for it.

Given the insults from Europe, we need to leave and rip the heart out of Europe.

Once that's done, force a general election and get her out.totally agree with you Mr Cheshire

Just don't know why a small few think sun shines out of her arse

Mind you they say love is blind

I don't support Brexit, the Tories or May but I dispassionately acknowledge that none of those howling on the sidelines could have done the impossible job any better. Getting rid of May will do absolutely nothing to clear up the unholy mess created by those who voted leave.but you remainers are so quick to put blame on those who voted leave.

But it's as obvious as black being black, white being white it's not the voters fault at all

If anything it's the remainers in government all parties that is causing all this unholy mess. Not any of those who voted

Those who voted are they putting deal together for exit?

NO

So blame firmly is on Mrs May's door step and anyone else involved with this exit process

Not the voters

FFS we get it, its Mays fault. Now hasn't that just made the whole situation go away!!!!!!!"

so Mr biman

Please tell me why Mrs may can't be blamed?

Who is in charge of dealing with exit please share?

No not totally all her fault there's also crybaby remainers within party and opposition trying with all their might to mess things up

But Mrs may hasn't helped herself either

Was it the conservatives that called referendum in first place yes pressured by UKIP

There wasn't that much homework done reason why hardly no information regarding both sides of vote

So where does blame lay there?

No matter how you look at it, you can't blame the voters whether leave or remain

Mainly the conservative party it's two leaders (cameron and may) the rest of politicians NOT the voters

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation."

Quite a bit of truth in that CB. Unrest seems to be contagious. Remember the street riots of 2011. All these Gilets Jaune protests have spiraled out of control despite the Macron government giving in to their original demands. I stumbled across some group on social media advocating people take to the streets to ensure Brexit, and even heard some hothead, on the radio, saying he was prepared to 'man the barricades, and he was middle-aged.

Of course the vast majority on both sides of the fence do not want this and probably don't feel very strongly about it. They want to get on with their lives either as part of the EU or out of it, with as little fuss or disruption as possible.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation."

Sadly I fear you are right. On this forum and elsewhere the nastiness and threats of violence have come mainly from leavers. I put it down to fear and encouragement from the Farages of this world (though it is interesting that he has opted for German nationality for his children).

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation."

What you are not saying leavers are unbalanced what a laugh

You probably think leavers are unbalanced for the the cheek of voting leave

But it's the remainers that's up in arms, unbalanced, why do you think we are in unholy mess?

Because the crybaby remainers are putting in spanner at every opportunity to sabotage exit deal

And it leavers that get all shit cause the crybabies just can't accept result

People are going to be upset if any kind of vote doesn't stand

But no excuse for violence

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation.

What you are not saying leavers are unbalanced what a laugh

You probably think leavers are unbalanced for the the cheek of voting leave

But it's the remainers that's up in arms, unbalanced, why do you think we are in unholy mess?

Because the crybaby remainers are putting in spanner at every opportunity to sabotage exit deal

And it leavers that get all shit cause the crybabies just can't accept result

People are going to be upset if any kind of vote doesn't stand

But no excuse for violence "

you have clearly not read the posts, and if you have, then you have mis-read them.

All you can do is call names - "crybaby remainers" "shit". You're part of the problem Danny, not the solution.

I shall say no more

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Okay distortions of the truth on both sides. Can't remember them all but there were plenty. I stopped watching all the debates etc leading up to the referendum because I got to the point of not believing what either side said.

This is the single most divisive issue this country has faced since goodness knows when. Possibly since the mid 17th century civil wars. There is never going to be a right or wrong answer [apart from that claimed by a handful of extremists on both sides] Most people just want to get on with there lives with as little fuss and disruption as possible.

The biggest opponents of a 2nd referendum are the ardent Brexiteers because they fear they would lose. Then they would start yelling that they were cheated and be demanding a 3rd. From all reports this morning it does not look like anyone in the EU is prepared to re-open negotiations and that will not just be with Mrs May but with any would-be PM from whatever political group.

For the record I am no fan of the EU. I wish the whole corrupt 'empire' would implode and that we could go back to something sensible like EFTA."

You sound as though you SHOULD be one of those ardent brexiteers, that you moan about!! ...

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"There is a difference between negativity and realism.

Yes, indeed there is.

I wonder if there's a certain amount of fear, on the Government's part, that if there was a second referendum that changed the situation, that the leavers and their supporters would riot and become violent, so the easiest option is to live with current situation.

Even in the relative safety of this forum, I have seen a massive amount of braying and spittle, predominantly from the leavers, many of which I think might be incapable of reasonable debate and acceptance on brexit.

I'm not saying that all leavers are unbalanced (far from it) or that all remainers are rational just making an observation.

What you are not saying leavers are unbalanced what a laugh

You probably think leavers are unbalanced for the the cheek of voting leave

But it's the remainers that's up in arms, unbalanced, why do you think we are in unholy mess?

Because the crybaby remainers are putting in spanner at every opportunity to sabotage exit deal

And it leavers that get all shit cause the crybabies just can't accept result

People are going to be upset if any kind of vote doesn't stand

But no excuse for violence

you have clearly not read the posts, and if you have, then you have mis-read them.

All you can do is call names - "crybaby remainers" "shit". You're part of the problem Danny, not the solution.

I shall say no more"

well I don't see yourself coming up with any real solution

And where exactly am I problem regarding the unholy mess Brexit has turned out to be?

Anyways not going to get into any petty arguments

I'm guessing you are an remainer

So let me take this opportunity to apologise for name calling can see it wasn't called for

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

People are forever putting blame on leavers. The country got asked what they wanted even though the wholec ountry didn't vote leave won

After that it went over to government to sort out the exit preferably with a deal.

But this is where it turn into a unholy mess, alot don't like Mrs May's deal

That could be basically because it is a bad deal or could be there's a group of mp's that voted remain and are/trying to sabotage it so it could go back to another referendum knowing to well remain would win most probably because of all this mess it has called

But come March we should leave with some sort of deal or no Deal

That's should be end of story

The government should be working together to sort out an good deal then present it to EU then tell them it's this deal or no deal

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I believe Noel Edmonds has already been hired

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

If a people's vote would result in a majority in favour of remain surely that is part of the democratic process, which includes the option of being able to change your mind once all the information is available. Would you decide to buy a house without seeing it and then say you don't have the option to change your mind once the survey report shows all the hidden defects?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"If a people's vote would result in a majority in favour of remain surely that is part of the democratic process, which includes the option of being able to change your mind once all the information is available. Would you decide to buy a house without seeing it and then say you don't have the option to change your mind once the survey report shows all the hidden defects?"

Good point.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

My what short memories people have. We were told at the time we could negotiate a deal or leave with no deal and that is exactly what is on the table, we have what we voted for or have I missed something?

Of course remainers don’t like either option and leavers will be divided between the two, this can’t be a surprise to anyone.

The only decision now is whether or not the deal is acceptable, and we all know that the deal on offer is not acceptable to the vast majority, so either we try for a new simpler deal or leave with no deal.

If we leave with a simple deal we can always negotiate a more involved deal over time, as the EU always moves slowly on these things.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"If a people's vote would result in a majority in favour of remain surely that is part of the democratic process, which includes the option of being able to change your mind once all the information is available. Would you decide to buy a house without seeing it and then say you don't have the option to change your mind once the survey report shows all the hidden defects?

Good point."

Its a bad point. Leaving the EU, cannot, in any way shape or form, be compared to buying a house. A house is a tangible thing. it exists, you can see it, you can closely examine it. Brexit is not a tangible thing. Nobody knows what shape or form it will take, NOBODY. People can guess, people can spread fear, and people can hope for better, but the most important thing, people can mould it to the shape they want once it has happened, but I repeat, NOBODY knows what Brexit is, right now. NOBODY.

What we DO know about, though, is the hopeless, and myopic way that the EU operates, and what we do know, is that many millions of us do not want to be associated with such an organisation.

There is one figure that I would love to know, and that is …. how many people voted to remain because they thought we stood a chance of changing things from within? How many people voted to remain because they mistakenly thought they could change the EU back to a simple trading bloc? If you add those to the figures who voted leave, then I guarantee the numbers seriously unhappy with the EU would be far in excess of those published by a simple in/out vote.

Finally, what are the reasons for staying in the EU? Clearly they have nothing whatsoever to do with pride in a nationality. If someone can give me clear, provable reasons for remaining within the confines of the EU, then I'll listen, but of its just more rhetoric that cannot be proved, then don't bother.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Ok....somebody wanted to know a lie the leave campaign had spread...

£350 million extra for the NHS plastered on the side of Boris's bus which has now resulted in private legal action against him.

On the flip side a lie spread by the remainers...

Civilisation will collapse outside the EU.

Personally I voted to remain after weighing up the options. My elderly parents voted to leave because they don't like all the foreigners in their country.

A 19yo lad we had at work at the time voted to leave because he didn't know what to vote for so asked his racist as fuck dad which side to take

Based on that I don't think having more young voters will necessarily benefit the remainers as young voters only seem to take an interest if they hold extreme views...most genuinely don't care enough cos they don't want to take any responsibility.

The main issue is that the government just assumed the people would vote to remain and had no idea what to do when the leave vote was announced. So now they are screwed cos they are playing catch up.

The EU had no intentions of ever negotiating. They want to use Brexit as an example to other members to scare them into never leaving. Simply put they'l fuck us over to keep everyone else on side.

The problem with that is that a negotiation means both sides are open to compromise...with the EU not willing to give any leeway the UK doesn't have a negotiation...its a surrender.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

A lot of truth in what RC1983 says above. The wording on the famous BoJo battle-bus was cleverly designed and misleading to say the least. The whole campaign was a constant ping-pong of distortions of the truth from both sides.

My take on the whole issue of Brexit is that the vast majority are totally indifferent to the EU but have been caught up in the maelstrom of it because you cannot get away from it. A bit like Christmas or who's shagging/murdering who on EastEnders.

The outcome or how it will affect our lives no one can predict. There will be horror stories from both sides like there has been for years now.

People voted to stay or leave for all manners of reasons. Some single issue and some quite petty. If there was another referendum no doubt some people would again vote on niche issues rather than the bigger picture.

You cannot generalise but on the whole the older generation voted to leave whilst the younger generation were more likely to vote to stay. I know that in 1975 at lot of my contemporaries---the 18-20yo group---did not bother to vote.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Ok....somebody wanted to know a lie the leave campaign had spread...

£350 million extra for the NHS plastered on the side of Boris's bus which has now resulted in private legal action against him.

"

The learned gentleman presiding will take one look at that photograph, and throw the case out, awarding costs to Boris. Can you not actually read what it says on the bus???? …. give me strength!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Ok....somebody wanted to know a lie the leave campaign had spread...

£350 million extra for the NHS plastered on the side of Boris's bus which has now resulted in private legal action against him.

The learned gentleman presiding will take one look at that photograph, and throw the case out, awarding costs to Boris. Can you not actually read what it says on the bus???? …. give me strength!"

You are probably right Mr C. The case is petty and should never be taken to court. I will say that on first glance it was easy to misconstrue what it said and of course the media blew it all out of proportion. It was cleverly worded and perhaps the intention was to hoodwink but that would be almost impossible to prove.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Lies in politics, surely not, you'll be saying next Santa Claus is a myth !

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"A lot of truth in what RC1983 says above. The wording on the famous BoJo battle-bus was cleverly designed and misleading to say the least. The whole campaign was a constant ping-pong of distortions of the truth from both sides.

My take on the whole issue of Brexit is that the vast majority are totally indifferent to the EU but have been caught up in the maelstrom of it because you cannot get away from it. A bit like Christmas or who's shagging/murdering who on EastEnders.

The outcome or how it will affect our lives no one can predict. There will be horror stories from both sides like there has been for years now.

People voted to stay or leave for all manners of reasons. Some single issue and some quite petty. If there was another referendum no doubt some people would again vote on niche issues rather than the bigger picture.

You cannot generalise but on the whole the older generation voted to leave whilst the younger generation were more likely to vote to stay. I know that in 1975 at lot of my contemporaries---the 18-20yo group---did not bother to vote."

A good post. The famous bus signage was very misleading and played a major part in the way the voting went.

I think it has always been fairly obvious that the leave vote was won mostly on racial issues and the older generation are more disturbed by this but the younger generation have grown up with others from around the world.

When Brexit happens it will be those voting leave who will be the most disappointed. The remain voters have predicted everything bad but those voting leave will be in for a reality check when they realise that all those “bloody regulations” did not come from the E.U. whatever the social media told them and the “bloody immigrants” won’t be noticeably affected except for the small numbers from E.U. countries.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 14 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Of the 66M people living in the U.K. 6.2M (9%) are non U.K. citizens, 3.7M are E.U. citizens, whether you consider those numbers high or low is a matter of opinion.

These figures do not include those born abroad who are now U.K. citizens.

An interesting bit of trivia is in terms of number of voters the sixth most important city in the French presidential election is London, with an estimated 400k French citizens.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *samshardi   profile verified by photo (M) 11 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"The referendum was a long time ago so anything to do with lies on either side is now a bit irrelevant. Far better would be for those who voted leave to explain clearly and succinctly why they believe we are better off now and will be in the future as a result of their vote. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the present unholy mess.

You are asking a question I doubt you will see many informative answers for. I want to leave the EU but I do not want to leave without lengthy negotiations to get a good deal which should have taken place before we even began to jump ship with no life belt.

I don't want to give up trade deals. I don't want complicated travel within Europe. I don't want to forego the food quality regulations which protect us. I don't want to give up the regulations controlling working conditions. I don't want to give up the health and safety standards. I think we all know that left to our own devices all these will suffer.

The saddest thing is without these quality controls it is the ordinary working class person who will suffer the most. The same ordinary working class person that was using the Mail and social media to help make their decisions. They wanted freedom but not if it meant losing their protection.

Thank goodness for Mrs May as she seems to be the only one on the side of you and me and the ordinary guy.

Haven't you worked it out by now, the EU have taken a leaf out of de Gaulle's book, they just say "non" to anything that UK suggests. Why is that? because we started the negotiations from completely the wrong place, and they have had the upper hand ever since. It would have been so easy, and any half decent negotiating team would have adopted this stance. WE say upfront that we're leaving on 29/3/2019, what deal does the EU want from us? Come and talk to us when you have something to offer, otherwise its bye bye and hello tariffs. You HAVE to put the onus on the other side and keep it there, throughout. That's exactly what they have done to us, and its the remainers in our midst who bought it about. David Davis admitted as much, last night on Question Time. As time passes, I'm more and more convinced that remain has deliberately sabotaged Brexit ….. that tells you all you need to know about the sincerity of the political class. Fat salaries and pensions is all that really concern the majority. Have you not noticed that its those of independent means who invariably are the ones who tend to stray from the "party line"?"

EXACTLY THAT. Well said.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *hemaligfreund   profile verified by photo (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I don't relish the thought of another referendum. More acrimonious campaigning and more blatant lies from both camps. However it might solve this current impasse. People may have changed there minds plus the composition of the electorate will have shifted with several hundred thousand older voters having passed away and a slightly higher number of young people now eligible to vote.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

The question is what would the referendum ask. A deal versus a no deal or another in/out choice. You can only have two choices in a referendum as three would completely muddy the waters.

Sorry about the above ….. I'll start again.

People bandy about the phrase, "blatant lies". Can anyone tell me of a lie that they heard coming from the leave campaign? I can't think of a single one ….. so come on, all you remainers, what was said that could be taken as a lie??

As for the "old people have died" …. c'mon, that's really clutching at straws. Old people will always be dying, by your reasoning that means we should have a continuing referendum farce every couple of years???? Ridiculous! I do believe that the referendum was hailed by those that offered it as a "once in a lifetime opportunity". Now, call me pernickety, but it could be argued from a legal point of view, that introductory phraseology was part of the ground rules for the referendum and therefore any further referendum on the same subject could not be allowed...…. blame my legal education for that one …. "

Leave lies....

The money saved from leaving the EU will result in the NHS getting £350m a week

A free-trade deal with the EU will be 'the easiest thing in human history

Turkey is going to join the EU and millions of people will flock to the UK

Brexit does not mean the UK will leave the single market

We can have the exact same benefits outside of the EU

Would you like some more?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

More? How about one.

If anyone thought that the leave campaign were able to tie the hands of future Chancellors and force them to spend all the money on the NHS then they clearly have no idea of how politics works in this country. What was said was that the money should be spent on our priorities such as the NHS.

There will be a trade deal with the EU, how easy it will be to negotiate we will only find out when we START the negotiations.

Whether Turkey joins the EU or not we already have millions of EU citizens here and more “flock” here every year approximately a third of a million.

The U.K. does not have to leave the single market to have Brexit, this is usually known as the “Norway “ option.

Nobody said we could have the same benefits and be outside the EU, if you think they did perhaps you can tell us who said it and when.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

We will be better off once we have left we will go through a very hard period EU will make sure of that

But we can trade with the whole world there is more out there than EU

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *otscot50  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Dont we trade with the whole world at present?

I drink New Zealand wine, Australian wine american Jack Daniels and eat Argentinian beef, Canadian Maple syrup to name but a few things we buy from every country in the world.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dont we trade with the whole world at present?

I drink New Zealand wine, Australian wine american Jack Daniels and eat Argentinian beef, Canadian Maple syrup to name but a few things we buy from every country in the world."

yes we do but you wouldn't know that with all scare mongering remainers come out with

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *otscot50  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

But as I understand it we trade under eu deals.

If we leave the EU we would have to trade under WTO rules until we established out own trade deals and I believe world trade rules impose hefty tariffs we do not have at present.

I will leave you to google it.

Also look up just in time supply most major manufacturing firms use it to avoid carrying stock.

Port delays and tariffs would cripple many manufacturing industries and many who are international anyway would move to the EU as many financial firms have done already.

It would be a disaster for this country we must at least stay in the customs union.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *otscot50  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Just to add how can you say we would be better off if we left when all the financial experts (unless you are one) say our economy would take a long term massive hit.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"We will be better off once we have left we will go through a very hard period EU will make sure of that

But we can trade with the whole world there is more out there than EU "

So leavers already admit the hard times ahead and are blaming the EU? Next it will be the US, China, global downturn, etc - anything other than their misguided decision based on something other than knowledge of the potential economic impact.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Just to add how can you say we would be better off if we left when all the financial experts (unless you are one) say our economy would take a long term massive hit."

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Of course the financial experts say we will be worse off we will be outside the EU and have to deal with their tariffs and import quotas.

At the moment they set them for us as well but once outside we can set our own tariffs and quotas. We can set them as high or low as we want to, and adjust them in future trade deals with other countries. We can make them to suit our economy not the whole EU, we don’t have a wine or olive oil industry to protect.

What the financial experts can’t do is factor in the effect of any future trade deals we make until they are made

When it comes to delays at the border it is up to us to ensure that there are none on this side, we can’t affect what happens on the EU side.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"We will be better off once we have left we will go through a very hard period EU will make sure of that

But we can trade with the whole world there is more out there than EU

So leavers already admit the hard times ahead and are blaming the EU? Next it will be the US, China, global downturn, etc - anything other than their misguided decision based on something other than knowledge of the potential economic impact."

you are wrong there massively yes admitting it's going to be an hard period that's obvious

But not blaming EU at all I said there will make it hard as they don't want to lose our money, but they not at fault.

We are England we can cope with anything. It's the government that has let the country down.

It's the guible remainers that's believed every scaremongering story out there

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Just to add how can you say we would be better off if we left when all the financial experts (unless you are one) say our economy would take a long term massive hit."

yes these financial experts was probably hand picked to helpwith scare mmongering haven't you. Thought of that

Can easily be done

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Well when they call second referendum the Scottish people that voted for Scotland independence should get what they want a second referendum.

Now they will allow one got to allow others really

What do we do in four years time when they would have been a general election as votes just don't count no more

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"We will be better off once we have left we will go through a very hard period EU will make sure of that

But we can trade with the whole world there is more out there than EU

So leavers already admit the hard times ahead and are blaming the EU? Next it will be the US, China, global downturn, etc - anything other than their misguided decision based on something other than knowledge of the potential economic impact.you are wrong there massively yes admitting it's going to be an hard period that's obvious

But not blaming EU at all I said there will make it hard as they don't want to lose our money, but they not at fault.

We are England we can cope with anything. It's the government that has let the country down.

It's the guible remainers that's believed every scaremongering story out there "

I thought you voted remain - well, you said you did. You also said you voted for Mavis, but you disrespect her at many opportunities. I’m not having a go, but you’re inconsistent.

I can understand your disappointment at the vote going against your wishes, whatever they are today, but the Members if Parliament are elected and they have voted against this deal.

Why are you afraid of a fresh referendum?

This is different to the Scottish one in many ways so don’t link the two.

Are you afraid that a second referendum will produce a STAY vote and you will be in the minority?

Anyeay, have a lovely day, whatever you’re up to, be it work, rest or play

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Mr Cheshire

You know you are having ago why be so dishonest.

I've never said I voted remain never so suggest go and have a read through _hreads and you will find that I definitely have said I voted LEAVE.

I've also said I've always voted conservative party. And yes did vote for conservatives last election which in theory was for may or mavis whatever you want to call her.

But realised I made a big mistake as she has changed my opinion on the party. And conservatives won't be getting my vote next time unless she as gone and like what their offering.

No more just voting for one party because family do.

I'm against a second referendum as I believe first one should be honoured. But if you want to call that scared of second referendum that's your prerogative

Whatever result I will accept the result and not go off like a spoilt brat like many have.

And why was Scottish referendum different they wanted their own independence.

Correct me if I'm wrong wasn't the EU referendum so we could have our independence from the EU?

So what is so different?

I'm most certainly not afraid of being amongst the minority, as part of that anyway. Being mixed race

Thanks will have a good day do most days.

Sincerely hope that you Ave good day too

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Now back to the subject of this _hread. Donald Tusk, the current president of the European Commission, has stated this morning that the UK should stay in the EU in the wake of last night's Common's vote. This could not be undertaken by parliament alone. A second referendum would have to take place in order for that to happen. Even delaying our departure date is going to be a tricky one. I still think it is only a small percentage of extremists on both sides who are up in arms about the situation. The vast majority just want this impasse sorted asap so we can all get on with our lives.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Now back to the subject of this _hread. Donald Tusk, the current president of the European Commission, has stated this morning that the UK should stay in the EU in the wake of last night's Common's vote. This could not be undertaken by parliament alone. A second referendum would have to take place in order for that to happen. Even delaying our departure date is going to be a tricky one. I still think it is only a small percentage of extremists on both sides who are up in arms about the situation. The vast majority just want this impasse sorted asap so we can all get on with our lives."

Has there ever been a clearer signal from the EU that they don't want to lose us? Their poker face is slipping. We now need to put the ball in their court, and do what we should have done at the outset. Tell them that we are leaving on 29/3/2019 without a trade deal in place and without paying them a single penny, UNLESS they can come up with a solution that satisfies everyone. I'd settle for customs union, but no freedom of movement for people. To be outside the control of the EU courts but to have a vote in anything that that concerns the customs union. In return, I would be happy to pay the equivalent sum that the maintenance and introduction of tariffs would cost us. That all seems fair enough to me, but above all, we must not return to the EU and grovel, we have them on the hop, now.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Now back to the subject of this _hread. Donald Tusk, the current president of the European Commission, has stated this morning that the UK should stay in the EU in the wake of last night's Common's vote. This could not be undertaken by parliament alone. A second referendum would have to take place in order for that to happen. Even delaying our departure date is going to be a tricky one. I still think it is only a small percentage of extremists on both sides who are up in arms about the situation. The vast majority just want this impasse sorted asap so we can all get on with our lives."

The government could simply revoke Article 50. Nothing else is needed to stop Brexit in its tracks. The Withdrawal Act would be impossible to implement and would probably need repealing but it would be easy to get a majority for that.

They would have to deal with the political fallout

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Article 50 could be revoked by act of parliament but it would then be up to the EU Commission to agree to it. After Donald Tusk's remarks I doubt there would be a problem but, without a peoples vote, there could be problems here.

Re-enter Nigel Farage from stage left to cause havoc at the next general election..

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well."

I do sincerely apologise Danny, I mis-read it as per the above and was confused etc.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Article 50 could be revoked by act of parliament but it would then be up to the EU Commission to agree to it. After Donald Tusk's remarks I doubt there would be a problem but, without a peoples vote, there could be problems here.

Re-enter Nigel Farage from stage left to cause havoc at the next general election.."

The ECJ ruled on 10th or 11th December (at the request of some Scottish representatives) that Article 50 can be revoked unilaterally and no othe EU institution or member state needs to approve.

They ruled in record time, ahead of the original Commons vote.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

You are probably right on that one Moondog. I was going on what was said on the BBC this morning but that institution is not the most reliable of sources.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I just wonder how this political farce will affect the Turn-out at the next public vote, more or less ?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well."

Mr nk

Iwas quote ing another which was quite obvious to me so thought it would others especially some that know what I think about Brexit

So I can't see why some got confused either

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well.Mr nk

Iwas quote ing another which was quite obvious to me so thought it would others especially some that know what I think about Brexit

So I can't see why some got confused either "

well, you do change your mind sometimes

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Mr Cheshire Baldie

I also sincerely apologise after looking at post in question

I cansee why you think I was being inconsistent.

So again please accept my apologies

Danny

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

If only the Palace of Westminster was this accommodating lol

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well.Mr nk

Iwas quote ing another which was quite obvious to me so thought it would others especially some that know what I think about Brexit

So I can't see why some got confused either "

Like I have already said it did not come up in grey like quotes usually do. Nor was it in inverted commas. Plus it was a bottom paragraph not an opening one hence the confusion. Also I was not the only one confused by this.

Yes we do know your views on Brexit but thought it was either a wind-up, someone had hacked your account or road had had a 'road to Damascus; experience,

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *annyboy87  (M) 10 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Dannyboy: This is not a criticism but two days ago on the Political Hooligans _hread, you began by stating that you voted remain. Must admit it confused the hell out of me. I now realise that you were in fact quoting the final paragraph of Moondog's post immediately above it. Because it did not show up in the normal quotes grey or was not in inverted commas, it did look as if you were suddenly claiming to be a remain voter. As I say it confused me and probably confused Cheshire as well.Mr nk

Iwas quote ing another which was quite obvious to me so thought it would others especially some that know what I think about Brexit

So I can't see why some got confused either

Like I have already said it did not come up in grey like quotes usually do. Nor was it in inverted commas. Plus it was a bottom paragraph not an opening one hence the confusion. Also I was not the only one confused by this.

Yes we do know your views on Brexit but thought it was either a wind-up, someone had hacked your account or road had had a 'road to Damascus; experience, "

my apologies to anyone who may have got confused over said post

It was my mistake of posting it like I did so please accept my apologies all

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *harlie2  (TV/TS/CD) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Much better to stay in the EU and work with them to make it work. In this day and age we need friends, not enemies.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Much better to stay in the EU and work with them to make it work. In this day and age we need friends, not enemies.

"

David Cameron tried that and they gave him the bum's rush!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"Much better to stay in the EU and work with them to make it work. In this day and age we need friends, not enemies.

"

How on earth do you get the other 27 countries to think the same way as the UK and those 27 could never be called 'friends' as it's ALL about self interests !

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *heshire baldie  (M) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I hope nobody is offended, but trying to get the 27 member of the EU to agree is like trying to get 27 posters on the Politics Forum to do the same.

nuff said

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I’ve noticed recently that politics is increasingly about self interest.

Why should the 27 EU countries put the UK’s self interest before their own. The UK would always put its self interest before any other nation.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 9 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"I’ve noticed recently that politics is increasingly about self interest.

Why should the 27 EU countries put the UK’s self interest before their own. The UK would always put its self interest before any other nation. "

Of course!

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *ylonedbitch  (TV/TS/CD) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

The hatred this has caused far outweighs any value in its intentions good or bad.there is no economic argument for leaving and no justification on the grounds of immigration .300000 came to Britain..from outside eu last year.. 3 million Asians bringing 1 family member marriage partner etc every 10 years.... Albanians for instance taking over large swathes of cash businesses.high streets.. are leaders in shady dealing.throughout uk. They are not in Eu .There are no border controls the government has no idea of immigrant numbers and no new plans for border.controls technological or otherwise.. it's a Right Bag of Brexshit. Perfect cover for dismantling of NHS And welfare services..50 percent of population conned by creeps like farage and gangsters who promoted brexit from belize .. Shock and horror there is a polish bakery on our street. Why ? Because tesco has been conning us into its stores for years and selling us rubbish .its doubtful we were ever ripped off by Eu.. its certain we were by tesco British gas water companies phone companies..etc all represent private taxation...going into same hands and same public school pockets At least Eu gave us a framework outside the local old boy network.it may have been ok for jeremy thorpe but 700 years of fucking normans is enough !

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

You sound as though you'd make a perfect German …

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *hris48mt  (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Nylonedbitch,Well said. That is the first time I have heard mention about real immigration and economic status.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

XXX pic...
login to view
By *ljcleeve   profile verified by photo (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Nylonedbitch has brought up many sound points but has failed to mention the one item that actually cries out for a new referendum.

That item is the simple fact that nothing that was voted for "so significantly" in the last referendum is in the future plans.

She is giving away NI , we are to continue to pay into the EU, we are still to be under their rules (but without any say) and all for an undisclosed period.

It reminds me of the main selling point to get us to join in the first place, that we wouldn't need passports to travel to Europe. Whatever happened to that selling point??

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Fear not, we will be out with a no deal, which in my opinion is the best possible deal of the lot.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

There is only one problem with referenda:- you can only ask one simple question on an otherwise complex issue. There are all manners of reasons why people voted how they did. Of those who wanted to leave some wanted a hard Brexit whilst others wanted a soft Brexit. Some voted that way purely on the immigration issue or fear of Turkey joining the EU. Some even treated it as a referendum on David Cameron's premiership.

To leave the EU there are endless complex issues to resolve which is why parliament has endless debates and endless votes on various amendments. Things the ordinary man in the street would never think of because they basically do not affect him but can affect the country as a whole.

This whole Brexit issue has really opened a Pandora's Box and this time even Hope has escaped.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *hread  (M) 8 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

All I voted for was to be free of the rule of Brussels and the self elected bureaucrats that are controlling life in Britain

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

An interesting programme started on BBC2 last monday on 28th January with the remaining following over the next 2 weeks. The programme is on BBC2 4th February called Inside Europe: 10 Years of Turmoil. Last weeks episode is available on catchup using the iplayer.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I suppose the question I must ask you all, is why do you need to be told by other people why you should vote one way or another?? Have you not , had sufficient first hand experience to be able to form YOUR OWN opinion? How come you don't instinctively know if something is right or wrong?

For those who voted remain, why were you so keen to give away your nationality, or, at the very best, see it diluted to the meaningless mish-mash that is multiculturalism?

For those that voted Leave, did you really believe that £350M per week would be spent on the NHS?

How many of you, would change your minds if a second referendum too place?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I'll try and answer your question, Mr C, but entirely from my own perspective. I certainly don't need anyone to tell me how to vote. I paid little heed to the referendum campaign as it just seemed to be endless ping-pong between the two sides, both of whom cleverly distorted facts to their own advantage.

I voted to leave. Perhaps without a lot of conviction as I could foresee that it was going to be a long and rocky road. I voted because I dislike the bureaucratic nature of the EU and its gradual move towards a United States of Europe. I dislike its endless petty laws, rules and regulations which we seem to follow more than a lot of other countries do. I dislike the way it has allowed too many countries to join that have poor economies and very little to give. It is supposed to be an economic co-operative and not a begging bowl.

On the other hand I was quite happy with some things the EU had to offer. Free trade in particular. Freedom of movement did not worry me. In quite a few spheres migrant workers from Eastern Europe have been a godsend. Especially in the NHS and care professions, agriculture and hospitality. People bang on about immigration but it is immigration from outside the EU that is more of a problem.

I voted to stay in 1975 but the then EEC was a very different organisation than the EU into which it has evolved.

A 2nd referendum? I don't relish the idea of more acrimonious campaigning and further division in the country. It may be the only answer to solve the current impasse then again it could stir up the proverbial hornets nest. How would I vote 2nd time round? I would have to give it a lot of thought and way up the pros and cons, but I think there is a strong chance that I would very reluctantly vote to remain.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*ld man small cock By *ld man small cock   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

True its a ping pong match, I think those that didn't vote are the ones that are calling for a 2nd referendum,

I want to know if they said at the time it was a once in a lifetime referendum do people think it was wrong demanding another bite at the cherry,about time we just left.

If Mr Corbyn gets to be prime minister I am emigrating.

Too many old men want to be in charge,who on earth wants their grand dad in charge of the country?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

By *aravaggio  (M) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

Mr NK … my reasons for voting leave were broadly the same as yours. I'd be happy to be in a free trade organisation, that makes complete sense, but the rest of it, the political union, the currency, the unequal fiscal state between member countries, even the free movement of people, just doesn't stack up unless you are happy to bend your knee to what is in essence, a German led invasion by stealth. Make no mistake, the EU is Germany. That country calls the tune on every single issue, irrespective of whatever grand sounding title is given to the various councils, courts and parliaments of the egregious gathering of sycophants and beggars. Why on earth would anyone with any self respect, want to be a part of that?

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

*9al By *9al  (M) 7 weeks ago

@private mail, +add as contact

I was too young to vote in 1975 but voted to remain in 2016 no great love for the EU but don't upset the apple cart unless you need to, if there is a third referendum I would vote to leave because the EU has behaved badly & will make us suffer if we stay in,they can push anything on us & know we will just pay up.

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

Add a new message to this topic

0.3124

0