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Political Hooligans

*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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We are a free country which means we are free to speak our mind [unless it is libellous] and free to demonstrate. Some of the recent protests over the vexed subject of Brexit have been far beyond peaceful, meaningful protest, and are little more than political hooliganism and thuggery. Death threats have been made and abuse shouted. The recent outburst against Anna Soubury MP was despicable. Irrespective of whether you agree with her or not she should not be treated that way. Thought it ironical that the person calling her a 'nazi' was a rabble rousing yob called James Goddard whose views are somewhat akin to the old German Nazi Party.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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Wasn't he associated with a former UKIP or EDL leader (not Tommy Robinson) if so then it maybe fair to assume he has extreme right views, that aside though its a shame these days that some people refuse to accept others opinions without being confrontational, think it has been mentioned in a thread elsewhere that there sees to be little room in life these days for respect, we should all learn to accept that others opinions may differ from our own doesnt always make them a bad person though.

Incidently i have a feeling this was posted in the wrong forum maybe C/O will be able to move it to the correct one.

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 28 weeks ago

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To be honest I have no sympathy for these politicians or journalists who have received abuse etc. If you behave like a c**t you will be treated like one. Tough.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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Goddard has been associated with the current UKIL leader Gerard Batten. Another nail in the coffin of that once respectable party. I've read and heard some of his rants on social media. He calls himself a patriot but sounds more like a trouble-making, attention seeking yob.

I did post this in the wrong section [hangs head in shame] and have asked admin to move it.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"To be honest I have no sympathy for these politicians or journalists who have received abuse etc. If you behave like a c**t you will be treated like one. Tough."

You may disagree whole-heartedly with Anna Soubry. I don't agree with a lot of what she says. However she is a barrister as well as an MP and a highly intelligent woman. She is entitled to her opinion and she certainly does not behave like a c^^t as you so eloquently put it.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Goddard has been associated with the current UKIL leader Gerard Batten. Another nail in the coffin of that once respectable party. I've read and heard some of his rants on social media. He calls himself a patriot but sounds more like a trouble-making, attention seeking yob.

I did post this in the wrong section [hangs head in shame] and have asked admin to move it."

Must have been in a rush to vent your spleen

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Goddard has been associated with the current UKIL leader Gerard Batten. Another nail in the coffin of that once respectable party. I've read and heard some of his rants on social media. He calls himself a patriot but sounds more like a trouble-making, attention seeking yob.

I did post this in the wrong section [hangs head in shame] and have asked admin to move it.

Must have been in a rush to vent your spleen "

A two minute break from gardening

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"To be honest I have no sympathy for these politicians or journalists who have received abuse etc. If you behave like a c**t you will be treated like one. Tough.

You may disagree whole-heartedly with Anna Soubry. I don't agree with a lot of what she says. However she is a barrister as well as an MP and a highly intelligent woman. She is entitled to her opinion and she certainly does not behave like a c^^t as you so eloquently put it."

I have to agree with Mr nk here.

No how much you disagree with anyone there's is no need for violence or abuse or being called a foul name like c**t

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By *ovfella   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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Anna Soubry's constituents voted to Remain. She is therefore absolutely right to represent their views right down the line. My own MPalso voted Remain but as the majority of her constituents voted Leave, she now represents their view and votes Leave. That is our system. Calling anyone a c**t in this situation is inexcusable and shameful. This is the ugly situation that this Referendum has resulted in.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Anna Soubry's constituents voted to Remain. She is therefore absolutely right to represent their views right down the line. My own MPalso voted Remain but as the majority of her constituents voted Leave, she now represents their view and votes Leave. That is our system. Calling anyone a c**t in this situation is inexcusable and shameful. This is the ugly situation that this Referendum has resulted in."

....whereas we voted Leave by a massive margin here and ALL three Labour MPs are voting to Remain.

I suspect the two constituencies you mention are anomalies rather than the norm.

MPs are voting to save their own hides, make sure to keep cosy EU jobs, and jobs for all their hangers on.

Maybe if we offered to replace the House of Lords with an elected Assembly and to allow the MEPs to replace the Lords initially.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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This referendum has certainly brought out the worse in people from both sides of the divide. Fortunately I think it is only a small minority as most people just want to get on with their lives whichever way they votes.

Interesting idea about replacing the HOL with the redundant MEPs Borederic.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"We are a free country which means we are free to speak our mind [unless it is libellous] and free to demonstrate. Some of the recent protests over the vexed subject of Brexit have been far beyond peaceful, meaningful protest, and are little more than political hooliganism and thuggery. Death threats have been made and abuse shouted. The recent outburst against Anna Soubury MP was despicable. Irrespective of whether you agree with her or not she should not be treated that way. Thought it ironical that the person calling her a 'nazi' was a rabble rousing yob called James Goddard whose views are somewhat akin to the old German Nazi Party."

Anna Soubury????? ……. my heart bleeds for her!! .. She wasn't physically abused, so no real harm done. She's spent the last two years giving two fingers to the referendum outcome, what does she expect, polite applause?? ….

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"We are a free country which means we are free to speak our mind [unless it is libellous] and free to demonstrate. Some of the recent protests over the vexed subject of Brexit have been far beyond peaceful, meaningful protest, and are little more than political hooliganism and thuggery. Death threats have been made and abuse shouted. The recent outburst against Anna Soubury MP was despicable. Irrespective of whether you agree with her or not she should not be treated that way. Thought it ironical that the person calling her a 'nazi' was a rabble rousing yob called James Goddard whose views are somewhat akin to the old German Nazi Party.

Anna Soubury????? ……. my heart bleeds for her!! .. She wasn't physically abused, so no real harm done. She's spent the last two years giving two fingers to the referendum outcome, what does she expect, polite applause?? …. "

No she should not expect polite applause. I don't necessarily agree with her but she has her right to hold a point of view and there is no getting away from the fact that the referendum result was close. Jobless Goddard and his chums are nothing but loud-mouthed yobs who are not doing the Brexit cause ant favours.

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By *ikkey69  (M) 28 weeks ago

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The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!"

Interesting concept although it sounds more like dictatorship of the majority rather than democracy. Based on that we should just leave the EU without further debate or parliamentary time being devoted to the subject.

On the plus side it would silence the opposition. No longer would Mr Corbyn and his cohorts be able to ramble on inanely about nothing on any subject

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!

Interesting concept although it sounds more like dictatorship of the majority rather than democracy. Based on that we should just leave the EU without further debate or parliamentary time being devoted to the subject.

On the plus side it would silence the opposition. No longer would Mr Corbyn and his cohorts be able to ramble on inanely about nothing on any subject "

why is it a dictatorship of the majority, if a democratic vote gets honored.

What's Corbyn got to do with it, yes he rambles on but alot of shit that is happening is coming from within conservatives themselves aswell

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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Someone obviously did not read Mikkey69's post

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!"

I assume you are being ironic rather than moronic?

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!

Interesting concept although it sounds more like dictatorship of the majority rather than democracy. Based on that we should just leave the EU without further debate or parliamentary time being devoted to the subject.

On the plus side it would silence the opposition. No longer would Mr Corbyn and his cohorts be able to ramble on inanely about nothing on any subject "

Rather strange that you mention democracy and then advocate silencing the opposition, which is a central part of the checks and balances required for democracy to work.Is it just that you can't resist any opportunity to bash Corbyn?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!

Interesting concept although it sounds more like dictatorship of the majority rather than democracy. Based on that we should just leave the EU without further debate or parliamentary time being devoted to the subject.

On the plus side it would silence the opposition. No longer would Mr Corbyn and his cohorts be able to ramble on inanely about nothing on any subject

Rather strange that you mention democracy and then advocate silencing the opposition, which is a central part of the checks and balances required for democracy to work.Is it just that you can't resist any opportunity to bash Corbyn?"

My answer was very tongue-in-cheek. The implication that no one had the right to speak out against Brexit would imply that the losing party in a general election had no right to be heard either. Not something I would advocate. I used your hero as an example so I apologise if you think I was taking a pot shot at him. I could have used Sir Vince Cable or Wee Nicola's stooge in Westminster whose name escapes me at the moment

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*ndyhants1 By *ndyhants1  (M) 28 weeks ago

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I think a lot of shit is coming from all over the place, and there is so much divide in all sorts of areas, that there is NEVER going to be the right out come for everyone. I think:

1.) We should just get on with it

2.) Go with no deal if that's what it takes, I am sure people will not stop breathing here or in the EU

3.) MP's from all sides need to start behaving like adults, and not take irresponsible action JUST to undermine the deal

4.) They should ALL stop going on about renegotiating the deal, the EU have said this will NOT happen and Theresa May has said on so many occasions I have lost count. "THIS deal or NO deal" are the ONLY options

5.) The Labour Party, particularly the leadership, should start to demonstrate what they are going to do to support the COUNTRY, rather than these ridiculous attempts to try and get a General Election at every turn. With all the turmoil we have had we do not need more, and generally people don't want it ( see UK Polling Report), and frankly they would not win it out right, I think currently NONE of them would

6.) Labour PLEASE tell us what your alternative plan IS!! I have not heard a single positive contribution from them, and Jeremy Corbyn is so unsure of himself that he is constantly reading his responses out ( See PMQT - Don't take my word for it...…..watch and see ). He will only say what he thinks people want to hear whether he believes it or not...……..not a terribly principled approach

7.) Conservative rebels, stop holding everybody to ransom on your selfish ideology, of course they are entitled to opinion ( agree with HK there), but when does the time come to look at what's on offer and make the right decision from there.

8.) We all need to start showing each other and the rest of the world some unity and convince them all we are a nation worth dealing with.

From the rebel Conservatives to Momentum, and Labour, the stubbornness of the DUP and the constant ranting of the SNP and in particular Nicola Surgeon. You all have selfish agendas, that are not compatible with each other. This is not going to be resolved by Elections, referendums, votes of no confidence or downright pig-headedness. GROW up and deliver something together that is the interests of the whole UK, with the best deal that is ACHIEVABLE

I for one am sick to the back teeth of listening to selfish people ranting at each other in view of us all.

Finally, which ever side you believe in, I think Theresa May has had a thankless task, but she has stuck to it, because she believes she should deliver what the people asked for. Whether you like the outcome or you don't, and I guess most of the public will not understand all the detail, they are reacting to headlines, but Mrs May has put a lot of hard work and effort for so many who don't seem to acknowledge that, or appreciate it. Many would have walked away before now, but she has stuck at it

If anyone is thinking of replying with strong worded or aggressive abuse, THINK first, because you are part of the element that has made the whole Brexit so unpalatable, and brought the worst out in so many. You have seen a few demonstrate that point in this very thread. Personally if you do reply like that your opinion will be of no consequence to me!!!!!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"The politicians askedthebritish people if we wanted to stay or leave the EU.

The majority ( all that is required in a democracy) voted to leave.

No politicians view from any party is relevant from now on.

We are leaving !!!

Now any politician who wont accept the democratic vote of the people,should be tried for treason!!

That includes sourberry and all the other assholes trying to fiddle the people of this country !!

Interesting concept although it sounds more like dictatorship of the majority rather than democracy. Based on that we should just leave the EU without further debate or parliamentary time being devoted to the subject.

On the plus side it would silence the opposition. No longer would Mr Corbyn and his cohorts be able to ramble on inanely about nothing on any subject

Rather strange that you mention democracy and then advocate silencing the opposition, which is a central part of the checks and balances required for democracy to work.Is it just that you can't resist any opportunity to bash Corbyn?

My answer was very tongue-in-cheek. The implication that no one had the right to speak out against Brexit would imply that the losing party in a general election had no right to be heard either. Not something I would advocate. I used your hero as an example so I apologise if you think I was taking a pot shot at him. I could have used Sir Vince Cable or Wee Nicola's stooge in Westminster whose name escapes me at the moment "

Or your Maybot and her cohorts, who have had nothing interesting to say for months.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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T AndyHants1:- A very good post

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By *aravaggio  (M) 28 weeks ago

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A lot of common sense emanates from Hampshire …

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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Mr andyhants

A good post

Yes Mrs may has worked hard for this deal but this deal maybe the wrong deal,

Just maybe half of this mess wouldn't be if it was a better deal. Can see why opposition would not like it

But most of her own very party against it this deal just can't be that good, and it's mostly remainers that like the deal

You are right all of conservative party should have got behind her from start, weboth kknow it's not just rebels that have selfish agenda.

Why did Mrs may leave it to last minute to pull out of vote, especially when so obvious she lose vote five days before.

Goes to see all leaders even though they all said that they wouldn't budge on deal.

What exactly is she up to?

This mess we are in is because of all politicians but Mrs may has made her mistakes too as she is far from perfect like some like to make out

Yes she has hardest job on planet

But she has history of making mistakes all way through home secretary post and even as pm

So some parts of this deal could well be abig mmistake

The 27 other countries accepted to easy for me.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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Maybe if the pointless general election wasn't called they would have been alot more time to put a better deal together

Makes you wonder what agenda pm and her team have

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Maybe if the pointless general election wasn't called they would have been alot more time to put a better deal together

Makes you wonder what agenda pm and her team have "

Now that is really clutching at straws. The general election campaign took a maximum of 6 weeks and the wheels of government still rolled on. The reasoning behind it was to get a majority to back a Brexit deal. It went wrong but if the 2015 intake of MPs were still in place the chances of getting the current deal through parliament would be little better.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"I think a lot of shit is coming from all over the place, and there is so much divide in all sorts of areas, that there is NEVER going to be the right out come for everyone. I think:

1.) We should just get on with it

2.) Go with no deal if that's what it takes, I am sure people will not stop breathing here or in the EU

3.) MP's from all sides need to start behaving like adults, and not take irresponsible action JUST to undermine the deal

4.) They should ALL stop going on about renegotiating the deal, the EU have said this will NOT happen and Theresa May has said on so many occasions I have lost count. "THIS deal or NO deal" are the ONLY options

5.) The Labour Party, particularly the leadership, should start to demonstrate what they are going to do to support the COUNTRY, rather than these ridiculous attempts to try and get a General Election at every turn. With all the turmoil we have had we do not need more, and generally people don't want it ( see UK Polling Report), and frankly they would not win it out right, I think currently NONE of them would

6.) Labour PLEASE tell us what your alternative plan IS!! I have not heard a single positive contribution from them, and Jeremy Corbyn is so unsure of himself that he is constantly reading his responses out ( See PMQT - Don't take my word for it...…..watch and see ). He will only say what he thinks people want to hear whether he believes it or not...……..not a terribly principled approach

7.) Conservative rebels, stop holding everybody to ransom on your selfish ideology, of course they are entitled to opinion ( agree with HK there), but when does the time come to look at what's on offer and make the right decision from there.

8.) We all need to start showing each other and the rest of the world some unity and convince them all we are a nation worth dealing with.

From the rebel Conservatives to Momentum, and Labour, the stubbornness of the DUP and the constant ranting of the SNP and in particular Nicola Surgeon. You all have selfish agendas, that are not compatible with each other. This is not going to be resolved by Elections, referendums, votes of no confidence or downright pig-headedness. GROW up and deliver something together that is the interests of the whole UK, with the best deal that is ACHIEVABLE

I for one am sick to the back teeth of listening to selfish people ranting at each other in view of us all.

Finally, which ever side you believe in, I think Theresa May has had a thankless task, but she has stuck to it, because she believes she should deliver what the people asked for. Whether you like the outcome or you don't, and I guess most of the public will not understand all the detail, they are reacting to headlines, but Mrs May has put a lot of hard work and effort for so many who don't seem to acknowledge that, or appreciate it. Many would have walked away before now, but she has stuck at it

If anyone is thinking of replying with strong worded or aggressive abuse, THINK first, because you are part of the element that has made the whole Brexit so unpalatable, and brought the worst out in so many. You have seen a few demonstrate that point in this very thread. Personally if you do reply like that your opinion will be of no consequence to me!!!!!"

A very good post imho

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 28 weeks ago

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Im fairly sure the Governments agenda is to withdraw from the EU, just as the majority of the voting public requested, in the best way possible for all concerned!......i know, crazy idea

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 28 weeks ago

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I wouldn’t say May has worked that hard. Most of the problems were her own doing. Then again the Labour scum have done absolutely fuck all except oppose everything in the vain hope they will win an election. That’s how desperate they are.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Maybe if the pointless general election wasn't called they would have been alot more time to put a better deal together

Makes you wonder what agenda pm and her team have

Now that is really clutching at straws. The general election campaign took a maximum of 6 weeks and the wheels of government still rolled on. The reasoning behind it was to get a majority to back a Brexit deal. It went wrong but if the 2015 intake of MPs were still in place the chances of getting the current deal through parliament would be little better."

yes government still rolls on

Mrs may and team complaining up and down country for sic week

Changing policy left right and centre which wasted time Brexit to big of a thing to waste time

And is still doing it by delaying vote for reasons see my last post

In my opinion there is a very big question mark surrounding Mrs may

She is up to something let's hope it's not one of her many mistakes

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"I wouldn’t say May has worked that hard. Most of the problems were her own doing. Then again the Labour scum have done absolutely fuck all except oppose everything in the vain hope they will win an election. That’s how desperate they are."

scum always raises to top who is top at moment???????

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*ndyhants1 By *ndyhants1  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Mr andyhants

A good post

Yes Mrs may has worked hard for this deal but this deal maybe the wrong deal,

Just maybe half of this mess wouldn't be if it was a better deal. Can see why opposition would not like it

But most of her own very party against it this deal just can't be that good, and it's mostly remainers that like the deal

You are right all of conservative party should have got behind her from start, weboth kknow it's not just rebels that have selfish agenda.

Why did Mrs may leave it to last minute to pull out of vote, especially when so obvious she lose vote five days before.

Goes to see all leaders even though they all said that they wouldn't budge on deal.

What exactly is she up to?

This mess we are in is because of all politicians but Mrs may has made her mistakes too as she is far from perfect like some like to make out

Yes she has hardest job on planet

But she has history of making mistakes all way through home secretary post and even as pm

So some parts of this deal could well be abig mmistake

The 27 other countries accepted to easy for me.

"

I completely agree that it is probably not completely right, but that was ALWAYS going to be the case. Negotiation was NEVER going to be easy, but when you've got people of ALL parties threatening to undermine the ONLY deal that is on offer that is what is unbelievable to me. These people are the ones that are going to end us with a NO DEAL.

There is a remarkable report on the BBC website this evening covering the PM's meeting with her Japanese counterpart. The Japanese PM has said the whole world wants to avoid a NO DEAL. A bright spark Labour MP Martin Whitfield who wants another referendum says how humiliating for Mrs May. The whole world can see the folly of a no deal why can't she? He wants another referendum.

The point IS that HE can't see is that she does not want a no deal hence why she is trying to get THE ONLY DEAL on the table through.

I voted remain, but think the calling of a referendum is a disgusting betrayal of democracy for those who voted leave. Even if we did have another and it ended up with remain, do you honestly think that the original leave voters will just accept that. There is NOT going to be any agreement that makes everyone happy, so its about time they accepted that and agreed what is the best option from those available, that respects the will of the referendum.

A lot of the same MP's and political people currently calling for a referendum are the same that said the Scottish people had spoken at the referendum, and that was the will of the people and must be followed...…….a bit of hypocrisy going on methinks.

I am a fan of Theresa May but I recognise she has made mistakes and even heard her say so especially regarding the calling of the last election. However it's a bit thick to listen to criticism from others like Jeremy Corbyn and Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson ( who are all entitled to their opinion, but fail to offer any alternatives, and in Labours case fail to acknowledge the EU's stance that this is the ONLY deal on the table, and there will be no renegotiation,,,,,,,,,,Great PM he would make, he either doesn't listen or does not understand!!

I feel so strongly that if there was another referendum I would now vote LEAVE because democratically that is what was voted. You cannot keep asking the same questions until you get the answer you want to hear

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By *annyboy87  (M) 28 weeks ago

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"Mr andyhants

A good post

Yes Mrs may has worked hard for this deal but this deal maybe the wrong deal,

Just maybe half of this mess wouldn't be if it was a better deal. Can see why opposition would not like it

But most of her own very party against it this deal just can't be that good, and it's mostly remainers that like the deal

You are right all of conservative party should have got behind her from start, weboth kknow it's not just rebels that have selfish agenda.

Why did Mrs may leave it to last minute to pull out of vote, especially when so obvious she lose vote five days before.

Goes to see all leaders even though they all said that they wouldn't budge on deal.

What exactly is she up to?

This mess we are in is because of all politicians but Mrs may has made her mistakes too as she is far from perfect like some like to make out

Yes she has hardest job on planet

But she has history of making mistakes all way through home secretary post and even as pm

So some parts of this deal could well be abig mmistake

The 27 other countries accepted to easy for me.

I completely agree that it is probably not completely right, but that was ALWAYS going to be the case. Negotiation was NEVER going to be easy, but when you've got people of ALL parties threatening to undermine the ONLY deal that is on offer that is what is unbelievable to me. These people are the ones that are going to end us with a NO DEAL.

There is a remarkable report on the BBC website this evening covering the PM's meeting with her Japanese counterpart. The Japanese PM has said the whole world wants to avoid a NO DEAL. A bright spark Labour MP Martin Whitfield who wants another referendum says how humiliating for Mrs May. The whole world can see the folly of a no deal why can't she? He wants another referendum.

The point IS that HE can't see is that she does not want a no deal hence why she is trying to get THE ONLY DEAL on the table through.

I voted remain, but think the calling of a referendum is a disgusting betrayal of democracy for those who voted leave. Even if we did have another and it ended up with remain, do you honestly think that the original leave voters will just accept that. There is NOT going to be any agreement that makes everyone happy, so its about time they accepted that and agreed what is the best option from those available, that respects the will of the referendum.

A lot of the same MP's and political people currently calling for a referendum are the same that said the Scottish people had spoken at the referendum, and that was the will of the people and must be followed...…….a bit of hypocrisy going on methinks.

I am a fan of Theresa May but I recognise she has made mistakes and even heard her say so especially regarding the calling of the last election. However it's a bit thick to listen to criticism from others like Jeremy Corbyn and Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris Johnson ( who are all entitled to their opinion, but fail to offer any alternatives, and in Labours case fail to acknowledge the EU's stance that this is the ONLY deal on the table, and there will be no renegotiation,,,,,,,,,,Great PM he would make, he either doesn't listen or does not understand!!

I feel so strongly that if there was another referendum I would now vote LEAVE because democratically that is what was voted. You cannot keep asking the same questions until you get the answer you want to hear"

Mr andyhants

A very well thought out post and has changed some of my views on this subject.

I'm with you on second referendum if thathhappens it makes a mockery of alot of other things.

I voted leave and will again and hope we get to same result

And then wants to call for another referendum.

I think it's ridiculous that mp's in conservatives party are trying to throw spanner into works, their are definitely the ones that should have Mrs may back whether you like her or what.

Corbyn and his party are expected to do that, but not her very own party

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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Hardly reported was yesterday's anti-austerity rally in London and it seemed to be an unholy alliance of extremists. Far right rabble rouser James Goddard was there with his yellow vest cronies. One of the main speakers was far left rabble rouser John McDonnell. The sensible politicians of the moderate left and right really need to get their act together.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Democracy, as we knew it, was ended by David Cameron and his decision to allow a referendum.

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By *JUST4ME  (M) 27 weeks ago

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I am very afraid you are completely wrong, look up the word “Democracy” and I think you will find that it relates to important issues where the citizens exercise power by voting which would affect the whole of the UK, whether in the four nations which make up the United Kingdom. A referendum is a method of referring a question or set of questions to the entire electorate directly that is Democracy working for the people of the Nation State and if the people who have the vote don’t vote then it is they who cannot complain about Democracy having ended.

There have been 12 referendums in the WHOLE of United Kingdom since 1973 so are you stating these should not have happened?

Previous referendums in the UK of which I was only eligible by age to vote in two of them 5th May 2011 and the 23rd June 2016.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Cast your minds back to the riots in London where much damage was done by extremists following the shooting of a KNOWN, VIOLENT criminal.

What I have seen in this forum, following the Democratic Brexit vote suggests that if a new referendum was held then the same sort of violence would erupt but on a more massive scale.

The moderates are often shouted down by the braying of the hardliners who, with the exception of a few, are unable to have a rational discussion on the matter.

Clearly Mrs May and her fellow numpties are not going to change their path for fear of the fallout, hence flagging up that the military have been mobilised.

So while democracy isn’t technically dead, it is being bullied out of the way.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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It's getting violent already with rabble rousers on both sides demonstrating. Haven't they got homes and jobs to go to? Theoretically it should not turn violent if another referendum was called because it would be putting the decision back into the hands of the people. The extreme Brexiteers would oppose it for fear of losing the vote 2nd time round. It could happen because people are entitled to change their minds and a good many are sick to death of the whole Brexit thing. I know I am.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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You are right there Mr nk it's coming from. Sides

As that's how divided Brexit as got country remainers think people was wrong to vote leave and same other way around

I myself can see violent demos happening sad really as violence is never answer.

But unfortunately is how some think

Some think that those who voted leave ate brainless idiots that will turn to violence like animals

while those who voted remain are the intelligent ones, the better ones, just because they opinion is remain

But you have good and bad on both sides

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"It's getting violent already with rabble rousers on both sides demonstrating. Haven't they got homes and jobs to go to? Theoretically it should not turn violent if another referendum was called because it would be putting the decision back into the hands of the people. The extreme Brexiteers would oppose it for fear of losing the vote 2nd time round. It could happen because people are entitled to change their minds and a good many are sick to death of the whole Brexit thing. I know I am."

that makes two of us - looks like the extremists have won

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"It's getting violent already with rabble rousers on both sides demonstrating. Haven't they got homes and jobs to go to? Theoretically it should not turn violent if another referendum was called because it would be putting the decision back into the hands of the people. The extreme Brexiteers would oppose it for fear of losing the vote 2nd time round. It could happen because people are entitled to change their minds and a good many are sick to death of the whole Brexit thing. I know I am.

that makes two of us - looks like the extremists have won"

what extremists

There was a vote leave or remain leave got the vote

So because it didn't go your way. There's going to be violence. Now the leavers are extremist.

Open your eyes there's trouble from both camps

Can't wait till March myself if we get out.

Saying if because remainers are complaining for an second referendum and doing anything for it

Both sides want to stop complaining and just accept we leaving and make the best of it

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"It's getting violent already with rabble rousers on both sides demonstrating. Haven't they got homes and jobs to go to? Theoretically it should not turn violent if another referendum was called because it would be putting the decision back into the hands of the people. The extreme Brexiteers would oppose it for fear of losing the vote 2nd time round. It could happen because people are entitled to change their minds and a good many are sick to death of the whole Brexit thing. I know I am.

that makes two of us - looks like the extremists have won"

Sadly I think you are right and the extremists have won with threats of violence and civil unrest if they don't get their way. It may all be over soon and the leavers can start taking accountability for their decision and the consequences - though my bet is that it will all be the fault of someone else if and when it all goes horribly wrong. They have been banging on about theoretical concepts like democracy and taking back control for years now and not a single one of them has yet said anything on here to persuade me that they made the right decision.

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By *JUST4ME  (M) 27 weeks ago

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And I agree 150% with you. Over the past few days I have looked back through this site at some of the threads relating to the Brexit debate since the results in 2016 that’s two and a half years ago and here we are in 2019 having the same old same old comments and not one person offering a REALISTIC alternative to the Government Brexit Deal. The EU has known for many years the UK wanted out, way back in 2005 in the Labour Party Manifesto they promised a referendum, the Lib/Dems in their 2010 Manifesto “Liberal Democrats therefore remain committed to an in/out referendum”.

I have looked back at the Conservative Party 2010 Manifesto and I quote “We will be positive members of the European Union but we are clear that there should be no further extension of the EU’s power over the UK without the British people’s consent. We will ensure that by law no future government can hand over areas of power to the EU or join the Euro without a referendum of the British people. We will work to bring back key power

In their 2015 Manifesto the Conservatives pledged an in/out referendum on EU membership by the end of 2017. Not forgetting Labours 2017 Manifesto, “Scrap Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace with "fresh negotiating priorities" with strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union” and the EU would never have agreed to that because under the single market it seeks to guarantee the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour the "four freedoms". What did the majority of those who voted to leave worry about most “immigration”? I remember down here in Devon, many who work in hospitality were afraid of more and more coming from the EU “to take their jobs” and I suspect it was the same for those who live in area’s close to the East Coast where “pickers” come from the EU and why is that because British workers refuse to do that type of work.

Lastly,as a person who voted remain I have read a considerable amount of the 567 page Withdrawal Agreement not because of any particular reason, but because I wanted to know about “what was all the fuss about” and reading the various papers would never give me the real facts other than putting a certain political spin on their writings. I agree it’s not perfect, but I believe it does give those who voted to leave the majority of why they voted to leave, but quite frankly any attempt to square the circle was never going to be an easy task NO matter who was leading the country.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 27 weeks ago

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What’s interesting is that you note that even if it goes wrong after we’ve left the EU, most (but not all) of the outspoken brexiteers will blame it on someone else rather than take responsibility for their actions.

Maybe we should rename them the Tefloneers, since nothing will ever stick to them!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"What’s interesting is that you note that even if it goes wrong after we’ve left the EU, most (but not all) of the outspoken brexiteers will blame it on someone else rather than take responsibility for their actions.

Maybe we should rename them the Tefloneers, since nothing will ever stick to them! "

They are already blaming the EU for not rolling over and giving us all the benefits and none of the pain and Remainers for not switching sides overnight and being 100% positive about their cause. Strange how they berate Remainers or moderates for 'negativity' and then make negative comments about them I now understand the expression 'wanting your cake and eating it too'.!

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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No one is saying EU should roll over can gave us what we want.

It's as obvious as black being black that the EU will be the ones making it the hardest as they don't want us to leave.

So why on earth would anyone say that?

And when you have remoaners constantly preaching doom, and those in power trying everything to put spanner in work

Even complaining for a second referendum to get what they want.

Well hope justice is served and leave wins the vote again

What will they do then?

Even got a small few making out leavers are brainless idiots fir voting leave.

And even being called extremists and making out their be violence from them.

When they been stuff happening from both sides

Remoaners constantly trying to get second referendum and leavers quite rightly saying no.

Yes leavers are to blame for leaving.

But if it is down to a bad deal how can that be voters. It's pm and her team that's drafted deal.

I myself will hold hands up and say I voted leave in five years ten years even if it goes wrong.

If Mays deal goes through I'll be first to give credit to her as it's all her credit for drafting deal not the voters.

What I can't make sence of is alot on hereare aalways jumping to Mrs defence no matter how small comments is, saying basically say sun shines out of her arse

Yet alot of these maybot fans clearly don't have faith in her deal.

If they had faith in Mrs may why preach they negative bile constantly

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"What’s interesting is that you note that even if it goes wrong after we’ve left the EU, most (but not all) of the outspoken brexiteers will blame it on someone else rather than take responsibility for their actions.

Maybe we should rename them the Tefloneers, since nothing will ever stick to them!

They are already blaming the EU for not rolling over and giving us all the benefits and none of the pain and Remainers for not switching sides overnight and being 100% positive about their cause. Strange how they berate Remainers or moderates for 'negativity' and then make negative comments about them I now understand the expression 'wanting your cake and eating it too'.!"

Nobody with a smidgeon of common sense would expect the EU to give us anything whatsoever. For them, its all about making an example of us to other would be leavers. So, as I've been saying all along, once article 50 was triggered, we should have had nothing to do with the EU, but spent out time speaking with the teams from actual countries, as they're the ones who will be losing our buying power. We simply have not been strong enough in our leaving actions, our political masters have either been very naïve, or very disingenuous in their adherence to a will to follow the result of a fair and democratic referendum. I for one, will never vote again, either at national or local level, if come 29/3/19, we have not left the EU. Any canvassing politician, of any hue, will get extremely short shrift if they knock on my door. When you look at it, not a single one of them has stood tall and championed the leave decision …. a few measley words here and there, but nobody can be pointed to as the standard bearer. Disgusting state of affairs.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 27 weeks ago

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As ever, a good solid approach from Mr C; he’s right in that the boys and girls down in Westminster have done nothing to maintain or strengthen our position.

Soon it will be done

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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This is the calm before the storm.

We will probably beg for the politics of the last few weeks once the nonsense that is to come starts.

I've been through the deal a number of times. If I were an MP I'd be happy to champion it as a stepping stone to the next agreement which is far more important.

I think history will look back on Mrs May as struggling hard against almost the entirety of the Commons to get the will of the people through.

If we get the near anarchy that is proposed by the cross-party group and they get control of the agenda of the house then I think the end result will be an overturning of the decision to leave.

I voted to remain and I'm absolutely astonished that those that voted to leave are so willing to let it go down the pan. Brexiteers will soon wish they'd supported Mrs May's deal as pretty much the only way out.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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I voted o remain and I'm absolutely astonished that those that voted to leave are so willing to let it go down the pan. Brexiteers will soon wish they'd supported Mrs May's deal as pretty much the only way out.

You are rIght Brexiteers are to blame for a percentage of this mess. But it's as obvious remainers are to blame for it to so it's just another case of remainers blaming leave

End of day Mrs may is up against it with her own very party

A handful are loyal to her then there's the Brexiteers wanting no deal as they see her deal is not as good as some say

Then they is the remainers determined to get what they want and stop at nothing to get it

Not all remainers are like that obviously but seems like the ones with power to do so are

To what I've seen it's only remainers and business people that think the deal is right deal

But no wonder remainers are happy with it, if it's true we still have one foot in EU with the deal

I don't often agree with Mrs may but if we don't leave EU whether deal or no deal the government as seriously let the country down

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By *JUST4ME  (M) 27 weeks ago

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I am not a Guardian reader, but this section by Simon Jenkins was emailed to me and boy is he so right in every paragraph. So I have copied it for everyone to read it’s a fantastic piece, thought out and brilliant.

• Simon Jenkins is a Guardian columnist 14th January 2019

Parliament is about to lie to those who elected it two years ago. It is about to pretend that there is a better way of leaving the EU than is outlined in Theresa May’s deal. It knows there is not. If it votes down May’s deal, it will lie.

The deal is not a settlement but a transition. It is a way of moving forward, of leaving the EU pending negotiation of a long-term trading relationship. It is not a compromise but in reality a defeat for the “having our cake and eating it” school of Brexit fantasists. But it is the only deal on offer. All else is a Westminster miasma of personal ambition, party advantage and endemic hysteria. MPs are charged with governing the country well. Never in my experience have they shown less interest in that cause.

Last week a still small voice spoke through the gloom. It was of a backbench MP, George Freeman, speaking of his evident despair over Brexit, but of the obligation on an MP to “cross the party divide and embrace the lost art of compromise”. The responsible next step was to leave as pledged by parliament in March, and move on to negotiate a future outside the EU. To vote against the deal was merely to shut one’s eyes and hope someone else gets the blame for chaos.

Fresh hope has been given to the stallers with a “coup” plan from three moderate Tories, Nicky Morgan, Oliver Letwin and Nick Boles. Assuming May’s plan fails on Tuesday – and they will be voting against her deal – they want a three-week delay, another vote and then the chairs of parliament’s committees to decide what to do. This might be another referendum, which is just a can-kicking exercise, or renegotiation on a single market or customs union terms. It would almost certainly mean postponing EU departure. Tuesday’s opportunity to move forward would be lost.

The parliamentary coup is a desperate stagger through a quagmire. It further relieves MPs from confronting reality and sustains their mendacity. The leavers want a hard Brexit, on the pretence that the referendum was a vote for tariffs, hard borders and passport controls. All poll evidence says it was not. The remainers hold to the pretence that the referendum was not sensible and, by some device, can be reversed. It cannot.

The polarising tendency of modern politics, the aversion to responsibility, compromise and common sense, has never been so glaring. MPs should vote for the deal and do what they were elected to do, which is govern the country. If not, they will present the country with a profession in disarray.

• Simon Jenkins is a Guardian columnist 14th January 2019

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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"I voted o remain and I'm absolutely astonished that those that voted to leave are so willing to let it go down the pan. Brexiteers will soon wish they'd supported Mrs May's deal as pretty much the only way out.

You are rIght Brexiteers are to blame for a percentage of this mess. But it's as obvious remainers are to blame for it to so it's just another case of remainers blaming leave

End of day Mrs may is up against it with her own very party

A handful are loyal to her then there's the Brexiteers wanting no deal as they see her deal is not as good as some say

Then they is the remainers determined to get what they want and stop at nothing to get it

Not all remainers are like that obviously but seems like the ones with power to do so are

To what I've seen it's only remainers and business people that think the deal is right deal

But no wonder remainers are happy with it, if it's true we still have one foot in EU with the deal

I don't often agree with Mrs may but if we don't leave EU whether deal or no deal the government as seriously let the country down

"

EH??????

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By *hemaligfreund   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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What more do you expect when your average separatist is under educated and harbours racist views? They still cannot come up with a single factual reason why leaving is a good idea, but we have to bow to their whims as the government is too weak to say "Look, leaving the EU will make everyone worse off, cause no end of trouble, give our young fewer opportunities than we had, so we will listen to your reasons for leaving, most of which are UK caused ones anyway, and do something about it"

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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"What more do you expect when your average separatist is under educated and harbours racist views?

"

Some might be like the 'yellow vest' rabble demonstrating and shouting abuse on the streets of Westminster. Otherwise that is an untrue somewhat, elitist snobbish view. A lot of people had very different reasons for voting to leave the EU. I voted to leave even if it was a bit half-heartedly as I could foresee problems ahead. I don't like the way the EU is run with its top-heavy bureaucracy and endless petty rules and regulations. I also don't like the way it is moving gradually and stealthily towards a federal state. I'm all for close economic ties with Europe and even free movement of labour, but I don't like the idea of us becoming a vassal state of the unelected EU Commission.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"What more do you expect when your average separatist is under educated and harbours racist views?

Some might be like the 'yellow vest' rabble demonstrating and shouting abuse on the streets of Westminster. Otherwise that is an untrue somewhat, elitist snobbish view. A lot of people had very different reasons for voting to leave the EU. I voted to leave even if it was a bit half-heartedly as I could foresee problems ahead. I don't like the way the EU is run with its top-heavy bureaucracy and endless petty rules and regulations. I also don't like the way it is moving gradually and stealthily towards a federal state. I'm all for close economic ties with Europe and even free movement of labour, but I don't like the idea of us becoming a vassal state of the unelected EU Commission."

yes you are right there Mr nk

It is some peoples snobbery why there think that way.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"What more do you expect when your average separatist is under educated and harbours racist views?

Some might be like the 'yellow vest' rabble demonstrating and shouting abuse on the streets of Westminster. Otherwise that is an untrue somewhat, elitist snobbish view. A lot of people had very different reasons for voting to leave the EU. I voted to leave even if it was a bit half-heartedly as I could foresee problems ahead. I don't like the way the EU is run with its top-heavy bureaucracy and endless petty rules and regulations. I also don't like the way it is moving gradually and stealthily towards a federal state. I'm all for close economic ties with Europe and even free movement of labour, but I don't like the idea of us becoming a vassal state of the unelected EU Commission."

very well said

They are some right snobs out therestuckup they own

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"I voted o remain and I'm absolutely astonished that those that voted to leave are so willing to let it go down the pan. Brexiteers will soon wish they'd supported Mrs May's deal as pretty much the only way out.

You are rIght Brexiteers are to blame for a percentage of this mess. But it's as obvious remainers are to blame for it to so it's just another case of remainers blaming leave

End of day Mrs may is up against it with her own very party

A handful are loyal to her then there's the Brexiteers wanting no deal as they see her deal is not as good as some say

Then they is the remainers determined to get what they want and stop at nothing to get it

Not all remainers are like that obviously but seems like the ones with power to do so are

To what I've seen it's only remainers and business people that think the deal is right deal

But no wonder remainers are happy with it, if it's true we still have one foot in EU with the deal

I don't often agree with Mrs may but if we don't leave EU whether deal or no deal the government as seriously let the country down

"

I think you are right about only one thing.

It's one foot in the EU with this deal. The blindingly obvious thing you're missing is that with this deal only it's also one foot out and at the moment we have two feet in!

Remainers will not be to blame for pissing away the opportunity to leave the EU in an orderly fashion and with minimum damage to the economy, it will be the Brexiteer fantasists that think there is some easy way.

The path Mrs May set out I think was guaranteed to take the UK one step out of the EU, and set the direction for the next steps for the big deal to secure a future outside the EU.

If Brexiteers across the parties had embraced it then we would absolutely certainly be on our way out and the vote would be in the bag today.

I don't think anyone could have been as dogged in her objective or as focused as she has been on undertaking the will of the people in the referendum.

Remainers will not have stopped Brexit at all, there aren't enough of them and faced with a united set of Brexiteers and the result of the referendum they would have had to make way.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Brexit is not achieved the blame lies squarely with the fools who have lied throughout, the money for the NHS, the possibility of not being worse off, and all the other lies which have made people think a Brexit exists that is lovely and all live happily ever after.

The appalling reality is that like the referendum campaign, no actual remain or leave parties exist to be held accountable for whatever mess both sides have made.

Brexit hangs by a fingertip today!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Lies..... what lies??????? Tell me a lie that the leavers told ….. you won't be able to, and PLEASE, don't point out that you can't read properly by citing that bus! All the lies came from the remain side …… along with £9million of taxpayer's money to illegally fund their campaign. WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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Personally i don't think we will leave the EU with no deal, but i also don't think it will be the currant deal thats on the table without amendmants being made, i think it obvious that the deal as it stands will not be voted through today, then and only then will the EU want to renegotiate if it comes to us leaving without a deal it will blow the EU wide open if other european countries are told they can no longer deal with the UK they too will make noises in terms of withdrawing, i think the EU are fully aware of this and so will want to come back to the table to renegotiate.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Lies..... what lies??????? Tell me a lie that the leavers told ….. you won't be able to, and PLEASE, don't point out that you can't read properly by citing that bus! All the lies came from the remain side …… along with £9million of taxpayer's money to illegally fund their campaign. WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!"

The half-truths have already been pointed out on numerous occasions but you refuse to accept that the Leave campaign was anything other than perfect, even though those who led it have admitted that some of their claims were misleading or false.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Lies..... what lies??????? Tell me a lie that the leavers told ….. you won't be able to, and PLEASE, don't point out that you can't read properly by citing that bus! All the lies came from the remain side …… along with £9million of taxpayer's money to illegally fund their campaign. WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!

The half-truths have already been pointed out on numerous occasions but you refuse to accept that the Leave campaign was anything other than perfect, even though those who led it have admitted that some of their claims were misleading or false."

well will you all remember who was dealing with both leave and remain mp's.

There all very good at misleading and being false.

Yes there was some lies told from leavers but there was from remainers too,

Can't believe remainers think that they compain was so perfect. And it's mostly remainers that is trying to sabotage Brexit

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Lies..... what lies??????? Tell me a lie that the leavers told ….. you won't be able to, and PLEASE, don't point out that you can't read properly by citing that bus! All the lies came from the remain side …… along with £9million of taxpayer's money to illegally fund their campaign. WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!

The half-truths have already been pointed out on numerous occasions but you refuse to accept that the Leave campaign was anything other than perfect, even though those who led it have admitted that some of their claims were misleading or false."

Half truths occur through the way things are read/understood. You still haven't given me an example of lies by the leavers. Why? because there are none …

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"

Can't believe remainers think that they compain was so perfect. And it's mostly remainers that is trying to sabotage Brexit "

The campaign on both sides was seriously flawed I think most reasonable people now believe that.

On the Tory benches it's primarily leavers who are blocking the vote.

The ERG have said they will vote no to everything.

There is a majority against no-deal in the HOC so Brexit will slip through your fingers like sand. Most likely outcome is a delay to 50 and a second referendum predicted to be remain.

That is what the EU is banking on and why they haven't intervened. If they thought they were forcing no-deal they would act immediately but they don't.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!"

No deal is dead. There's a significant majority against in the HOC, they'd sooner remain. It's the one thing the EU and the majority of MPs agree with. The new cross party alliance have ruled out no deal and so has Bercow so hard to see how the ERG which are the biggest proponent can get it through.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Yes no deal is dead as the remainers are pushing for a second referendum with help from may

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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"

Can't believe remainers think that they compain was so perfect. And it's mostly remainers that is trying to sabotage Brexit

The campaign on both sides was seriously flawed I think most reasonable people now believe that.

On the Tory benches it's primarily leavers who are blocking the vote.

The ERG have said they will vote no to everything.

There is a majority against no-deal in the HOC so Brexit will slip through your fingers like sand. Most likely outcome is a delay to 50 and a second referendum predicted to be remain.

That is what the EU is banking on and why they haven't intervened. If they thought they were forcing no-deal they would act immediately but they don't."

I suspect you are right Moondog. Whilst they are almost certain to reject Mrs May's deal they also reject a no-deal so where does that leave us? This notion that a new deal can be conjured out of a hat in three days is quite ridiculous. If the HOC oppose a no-deal then I cannot see us leaving on March 29th. If a vote of no confidence was successful [do turkeys really vote for Christmas?] leaving the EU would be delayed until after the unnecessary and unwanted general election, the result of which would be totally uncertain.

I would not be surprised if a 2nd referendum was implemented although it would be more acrimonious and divisive than the last one. The EU would welcome it and are probably hoping for it. They happened in Denmark and the ROI until they got the 'right' answer.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Yes no deal is dead as the remainers are pushing for a second referendum with help from may"

Mrs May wants her deal more than anything. She is fanatical and driven about it.

The only people helping to make the second referendum a reality are the Brexiteers (all parties) and Labour. In a poll yesterday the public said given the choice between a general election or a second referendum 80% said a second referendum. Mr Corbyn's reluctance to back what 70% of his party membership want is pushing them away.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"

I would not be surprised if a 2nd referendum was implemented although it would be more acrimonious and divisive than the last one. The EU would welcome it and are probably hoping for it. They happened in Denmark and the ROI until they got the 'right' answer."

You are spot on there NK. The EU have indicated strongly they would be happy to delay A50 if it was for a second vote.

A no confidence vote could not be won by Labour. Some Tories are very stupid but they are not stupid enough to vote themselves out of office, they would much sooner ditch Mrs May and appoint a new leader while in power. The DUP can be bought to support defeating a no-confidence vote as they have shown before.

An election now would probably result in a hung parliament and a coalition government. Yet more chaos!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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I certainly would not welcome a 2nd referendum but in the long run it might be the only answer and clarify thinks as all we have at the moment is stalemate.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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When there is a second referendum as I think it's obvious it's going that way

There definitely needs to be a shake up as this government as let the country down

And Mrs may should walk or be booted out as she would have failed missably.

As alot on here keep on saying Mrs may only one that's working towards exit so if we stay she as obviously failed big time and leave her post

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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Tusk has already said the only answer is to stay.

MPs voted yesterday against the deal but for very different reasons.

1. Some don't want to leave

2. Some want to leave with no deal

3. Some don't like the backstop

These things can't be reconciled into one thing a majority will vote for.

If there's a second referendum and it says remain then the path is easy, revoke article 50. This would leave Brexiteers bitter, especially if the win was marginal.

If the result was leave, the question remains how, there would be no progress at all as to the mechanism. No alternative to the backstop. Everyone has voted against something but no-one has put forward a working solution.

I voted remain but I think if there is a second referendum, or if we don't end up leaving, that would be a massive betrayal of the original democratic result.

Mrs May will go on as long as she can and will cling to power using every possible tactic. She is the Duracell bunny!

The deal may yet live on in part or in full. No-one has proposed an alternative with broad support or that the EU will accept.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Tusk has already said the only answer is to stay.

MPs voted yesterday against the deal but for very different reasons.

1. Some don't want to leave

2. Some want to leave with no deal

3. Some don't like the backstop

These things can't be reconciled into one thing a majority will vote for.

If there's a second referendum and it says remain then the path is easy, revoke article 50. This would leave Brexiteers bitter, especially if the win was marginal.

If the result was leave, the question remains how, there would be no progress at all as to the mechanism. No alternative to the backstop. Everyone has voted against something but no-one has put forward a working solution.

I voted remain but I think if there is a second referendum, or if we don't end up leaving, that would be a massive betrayal of the original democratic result.

Mrs May will go on as long as she can and will cling to power using every possible tactic. She is the Duracell bunny!

The deal may yet live on in part or in full. No-one has proposed an alternative with broad support or that the EU will accept.

"

yes Mr moon

If we don't leave it has been a massive betrayal.

I can see alot losing faith in our system if it happens

But there was a second referendum and it was remain that won the vote.

I for one would accept the result and just get on with life, and not be a crybaby like some have been

Mr moon you have been one of good ones

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By *ockpleaser  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Thank you, but I fear many Brexiteers would not accept the result especially if it was a marginal loss for them. If there is to be a second referendum (which I hope there isn't) then any win needs to be overwhelming in its majority to silence opposition.

This last 40 years Britain has been divided about Europe. We are not divided on party lines, or north/south divide, or age even though there are some broad correlations.

The EU is just a side-show really. The main thing any government needs to do next is bring a sense of common unity but there's no sign of that on the horizon.

Perhaps this is the beginning of the end for countries as globalisation truly takes hold taking us towards being citizens of the world rather than one country or Bloc. One can only imagine the battles that will bring.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"

Mr moon you have been one of good ones"

One can only try Danny lol

I agree completely with my brother above, unity is what we need but what we'll get is anyone's guess!

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!

No deal is dead. There's a significant majority against in the HOC, they'd sooner remain. It's the one thing the EU and the majority of MPs agree with. The new cross party alliance have ruled out no deal and so has Bercow so hard to see how the ERG which are the biggest proponent can get it through."

No deal dead?? I think you misunderstand the situation. We leave the EU on 29/3/2019 by law. If no trade deal is in place, we leave on WTO terms, irrespective of how many remainers are on their back legs in the HoCs.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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I think it's you who misunderstand what no-deal is.

No-deal as its being used at the moment is a jingoistic phrase used by Brexiteers to signify victory.

It really means a minimum of nine mini-deals to keep essential services flowing largely in favour of the EU. The terms of these are to benefit the EU and haven't actually been published. They will keep planes flying and utilities providing electricity and gas etc but they are by no means a victory and will be worse than Mrs May's deal where they were covered.

Yes WTO terms may apply but all the other agreements are back up in the air like fisheries policy etc.

The certainty that Mrs May's deal provided will be gone.

There is a very large majority against no deal and emergency legislation could be passed in hours to take March 29 out of law.

It's being drafted as we speak.

The overwhelming majority of MPs do not want a no-deal situation, and neither does the EU.

It's not going to happen.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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"WE ARE LEAVING WITH NO DEAL …….. get used to it!!

No deal is dead. There's a significant majority against in the HOC, they'd sooner remain. It's the one thing the EU and the majority of MPs agree with. The new cross party alliance have ruled out no deal and so has Bercow so hard to see how the ERG which are the biggest proponent can get it through.

No deal dead?? I think you misunderstand the situation. We leave the EU on 29/3/2019 by law. If no trade deal is in place, we leave on WTO terms, irrespective of how many remainers are on their back legs in the HoCs."

But will we leave on March 29th? I can see this being put back for at least three months until some kind of deal is sorted out now the only deal on the table is dead and buried.

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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I don't think anyone should assume Mrs May will give up on her deal voluntarily.

It's just in a coma, it may be revived at any time

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*ovebug By *ovebug   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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i have read with interest all comments about the e.u. but has anyone stopped and thought of the finacial implicactions. here is some of my thoughts

all the ppl that wants a second refurendum should think about the costs of how much. over the last two years since build up and vote in 2016 must run into millions, so do we want to throw all that away. i doubt it.

as for the younger generation saying that they had no vote on this because of there age. but this is the same for them in any election.

i think a lot of ppl are forgetting that some companies are doing well and investing in our workforce and goods. siemans in hull, toyota near derby an british steel from scunthorpe that a new contract exporting to italy and belgium (rail tracks) i just wish they would get on with it and let us put the great back in britain again.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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Just sat through PMQ which is not something I normally do. Could not believe how ill informed some MPs are with the stupid questions they ask. Obviously some would prefer to have it recorded that they spoke rather than do their homework. Whether you like Mrs May or hate her, you have to admire the calm way she answered all these questions after what has got to have been the most difficult 24 hours of her career.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Just sat through PMQ which is not something I normally do. Could not believe how ill informed some MPs are with the stupid questions they ask. Obviously some would prefer to have it recorded that they spoke rather than do their homework. Whether you like Mrs May or hate her, you have to admire the calm way she answered all these questions after what has got to have been the most difficult 24 hours of her career."

I almost feel sorry for her

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"I almost feel sorry for her"

Goodness am I dreaming

Don't! Her faith is strong it will see her through. She is of Anglo-Catholic stock and was educated by Roman Catholics. She is absolutely driven by what she believes is the right thing to do. She's been tested beyond any reasonable boundaries but she's not a quitter.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Just sat through PMQ which is not something I normally do. Could not believe how ill informed some MPs are with the stupid questions they ask. Obviously some would prefer to have it recorded that they spoke rather than do their homework. Whether you like Mrs May or hate her, you have to admire the calm way she answered all these questions after what has got to have been the most difficult 24 hours of her career."

I watch PMQs regularly, and its common practise for the same question to be asked half a dozen times, and obviously, receive the same answer. PMQs nowadays is a totally meaningless exercise. More about an MP getting their phizog on You Tube or their Twitter feed ….. I think the regularity with which I watch PMQs will diminish after Brexit has happened.

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*9al By *9al  (M) 27 weeks ago

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Guy Falks was also a Catholic with strong beliefs does not mean he was right

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Guy Falks was also a Catholic with strong beliefs does not mean he was right "

No-one has said her course is right.

Just that Danny needn't feel sorry for her because she is made of sterner stuff!

Your premise is entirely wrong.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 27 weeks ago

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"Guy Falks was also a Catholic with strong beliefs does not mean he was right

No-one has said her course is right.

Just that Danny needn't feel sorry for her because she is made of sterner stuff!

Your premise is entirely wrong."

Totally agree. I was brought up a Catholic and educated in a Catholic school but I would certainly distance myself from the late Mr Guy Fawkes.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 27 weeks ago

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Did Guy Fawkes have any beliefs? He as a mercenary soldier fighting for the Spanish for a fee. He was paid good money to come to the U.K. and blow up the Protestant king and kill everyone else in the vicinity. Certainly not a man of principle.

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