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Would you change your vote?

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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Definitely leave iwas in two minds last time out

But definitely a leave because of how eu have been and how our own government gone about it

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By *affy484  (M) 13 weeks ago

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Would not change my vote at all but bet there's a lot that would

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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I was in two minds in 2016. I voted leave but after what has gone on since rather regretted it. However if there was to be another referendum I think I would have to vote to leave simply because I dislike the attitude of the EU Commission more than ever. I am also concerned that after all that has gone on over the last two years, the EU might try and impose some unacceptable conditions on our remainingin/re-admission to the 'club'.

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By *ohnBoy67  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?"

Voted OUT, same again, without a doubt.

TOTALLY agree with your common market, political union and Euro views.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted to leave but have been disappointed by fellow leave voters who think it’s ok to insult, threaten and attempt to intimidate with proposed violence just to satisfy themselves. The behaviour of fellow Leavers is almost enough for me to want to remain .. but not quite.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 13 weeks ago

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I would vote remain again as the consequences of leaving are becoming more apparent. I think the best deal we have is the one we have had for the past forty years and I have today joined more than a million others in signing the petition to revoke Article 50.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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Because of the petition to revoke Article 50 has reached such a high number it will, I assume, have to be debated in parliament. No one would dare revoke it without another referendum so it will probably just use up yet more parliamentary time on this vexed subject of Brexit.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 13 weeks ago

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Well, if it takes a people's vote, so be it. The process is far from over and there are still many possible outcomes. The only thing that looks probably is that May's deal will be rejected again and then who knows what may happen.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"I voted to leave but have been disappointed by fellow leave voters who think it’s ok to insult, threaten and attempt to intimidate with proposed violence just to satisfy themselves. The behaviour of fellow Leavers is almost enough for me to want to remain .. but not quite. "

so none of that comes from remainers to

I personally know a large group of people that want to plan a big riots, if we leave all remainers.

And I guess that there are others up and down country

So it happening on both sides pal, I know as I've been asked to join but turned down straight away as violence is never answer, unless done in an ring

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted to remain, but I'd vote to leave now. The majority voted to leave, so that's what we should do.

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted leave originally, but was about 60/40. Now I am 100% certain we should leave, if only to piss off the snowflakes so they can go cry into their avocado toast and skinny lattes.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 13 weeks ago

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The endemic corruption (since 1994 the auditors have refused to sign off the EU accounts) and the democratic deficit make it a no brainier for me, leave the sooner the better.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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Talking to friends and others on the referendum I was surprized how many of them that voted remain would now vote to leave.

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By *ljcleeve   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted remain because I trust the EU much more than I'd ever trust a Tory and the Brexit fiasco has only strengthened that feeling of distrust of the idiots.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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Politicians and diapers must be changed often and for the same reason - Mark Twain.

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By *iwmwales  (M) 13 weeks ago

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The referendum was held for 2 reasons:

1. To neuter UKIP

2. The EU was about to do some very unpalatable things so if we had voted stay it would have been "don't whine, you voted for this"

A new referendum will be a stitch up, May's deal (infinite stay) vs stay, see reason 2.

A new referendum of May's deal vs No Deal would be acceptable to the leavers since Leave was decided on the first referendum....

But honest politicians would deliver No Deal now, Britain and the British are a resilient people, we would thrive without our hands tied behind our backs. More than that all British Citizens would have an abundance of opportunities!

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted leave as i believe Britain should be ruled by an elected British Government and not become another state ruled from afar, i have seen or heard nothing that would either scare or encourage me into changing my mind since so would vote leave again if it comes to it.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted "Leave". I would do so again. My reasons are still as valid now as they were in 2016. We are still non the wiser as to what an independent UK would be like, irrespective of what the ongoing project fear brigade tell us, but at least our destiny will be in our own hands. I do not want to be part of a Franco/German stitch-up. The French may be good at rolling over and having their bellies tickled by power hungry Germans, but FFS! We're British!!

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"I voted remain because I trust the EU much more than I'd ever trust a Tory and the Brexit fiasco has only strengthened that feeling of distrust of the idiots."

You can vote the Tories out, you can’t change the EU Commission.

When the European Defence policy comes into effect how do feel about the unelected Donald Tusk having his finger on the nuclear button?

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By *havedchris  (M) 13 weeks ago

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Tell them again, leave.

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*s55 By *s55  (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted remain but since would now vote leave

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By *115   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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...and this is the reason that shit who has got power in Brussel should be removed in next election on May - including Donald Tusk. A years ago I was voting to join my country to the EU but today I would think about my choice.

Only deep changes in the EU can save this organisation - if not then will be more ''brexits''.

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By  *ebelatsea    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted to leave, but have just signed the petition to, revoke article 50. Why? because I am so fed up with this load of corrupt incompetent shites and shysters in so called parliament. They are not now and never have been interested in anything their constituents want once they get their hands on the title MP. It's time the whole lot were dropped off a cliff. The only thing worse would be being ruled by trump.

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*hris51234 By  *hris51234    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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May not be neccassary if these rumours are true, Number 10 now seriously considering indicative votes on Brexit next week. Government source tells me there could be 7 options: PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal

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By *illanihole  (M) 13 weeks ago

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I voted leave for the same resons as the OP, its interesting to note how many here would change an original vote of stay now to leave.

With all the choices parliament has now I can only hope that all political ties and that of the ECJ will be severed and we can become a free thinking independent country once more. However my mistrust in this government makes me wonder if any of this will actually happen

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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"May not be neccassary if these rumours are true, Number 10 now seriously considering indicative votes on Brexit next week. Government source tells me there could be 7 options: PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal"

I've heard similar from an MP friend. Rather doubt any of these options will be approved the way Parliament is split at the moment other than with a totally free vote and the opposition parties wont agree to that.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"May not be neccassary if these rumours are true, Number 10 now seriously considering indicative votes on Brexit next week. Government source tells me there could be 7 options: PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal"

Let's hope this is true and there is at last a way out of the impasse. This is what May should have done years ago. Let's hope she will now listen and accept that her deal is dead if she loses MV3. The EU have been generous in giving her this opportunity so here's hoping she doesn't blow it spectacularly as she has so often in the past due to her lack of authority and vision.

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 13 weeks ago

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The 8th option is for her to sit in the corner with a pencil up each nostril and keep saying wubble - then she can be sectioned.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"The 8th option is for her to sit in the corner with a pencil up each nostril and keep saying wubble - then she can be sectioned. "

don't say anything like that you will upset people especially on here where most of her fanclub hangout lolol

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"May not be neccassary if these rumours are true, Number 10 now seriously considering indicative votes on Brexit next week. Government source tells me there could be 7 options: PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal

Let's hope this is true and there is at last a way out of the impasse. This is what May should have done years ago. Let's hope she will now listen and accept that her deal is dead if she loses MV3. The EU have been generous in giving her this opportunity so here's hoping she doesn't blow it spectacularly as she has so often in the past due to her lack of authority and vision."

Let’s also hope the arseholes on the other side of the HOC grow up and act in the interests of the country rather than themselves for a change. For the many not the EU.

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 13 weeks ago

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After all this has finished both May and Corbyn should resign if they have a shred of decency about them. They have both been fucking useless and spineless thtoughtour the whole pathetic sorry affair. Don’t hold your breath though.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"May not be neccassary if these rumours are true, Number 10 now seriously considering indicative votes on Brexit next week. Government source tells me there could be 7 options: PM deal, revocation, second ref, deal + customs union, deal + customs + single market, FTA or no deal"

I have just heard that these votes have nothing to do with the withdrawal agreement but only relate to what comes next (after May's deal has been accepted).

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"After all this has finished both May and Corbyn should resign if they have a shred of decency about them. They have both been fucking useless and spineless thtoughtour the whole pathetic sorry affair. Don’t hold your breath though."

I totally agree with every word you have just posted

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By *awtyCawty  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"After all this has finished both May and Corbyn should resign if they have a shred of decency about them. They have both been fucking useless and spineless thtoughtour the whole pathetic sorry affair. Don’t hold your breath though.I totally agree with every word you have just posted "

I am so pleased. My life is now complete ??

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By (user no longer on site) 13 weeks ago

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Corbyn changes his mind like the wind changes direction.

The country voted leave so lets get on and leave we do not need the EU. they need us more that is why they are being so awkward.

May has done the best she can and our elected MP's are letting the country down.

Bercow should resign he is a total disgrace to our democracy. all he want is to be in the limelight.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 13 weeks ago

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She should call a general election. They've shown not one of them can be trusted to act in the best interests of the country. We've seen nothing but self serving. They still don't understand the issues we want discussing. They won't listen. Fine, we'll have an election and make ourselves heard. Try 650 other idiots, see if they're more inclined to listen.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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"Corbyn changes his mind like the wind changes direction.

The country voted leave so lets get on and leave we do not need the EU. they need us more that is why they are being so awkward.

May has done the best she can and our elected MP's are letting the country down.

Bercow should resign he is a total disgrace to our democracy. all he want is to be in the limelight."

She’s worked hard and relentlessly to leave the EU with the best deal possible and everyone around her have been either showboating or keeping their heads down.

She deserves some success on this.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"Corbyn changes his mind like the wind changes direction.

The country voted leave so lets get on and leave we do not need the EU. they need us more that is why they are being so awkward.

May has done the best she can and our elected MP's are letting the country down.

Bercow should resign he is a total disgrace to our democracy. all he want is to be in the limelight."

Not saying our mps have not made mistakes and are not out for themselves

But are they really letting country down just because they don't agree with PMs deal.

Surely they are doing country a favour, most mps are they to be voice for they town/city

So again why should they agree to an deal to which they don't agree with?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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"She should call a general election. They've shown not one of them can be trusted to act in the best interests of the country. We've seen nothing but self serving. They still don't understand the issues we want discussing. They won't listen. Fine, we'll have an election and make ourselves heard. Try 650 other idiots, see if they're more inclined to listen."

I doubt a general election would solve anything. 400 to 500 of the existing MPs would be re-elected. Probably be another hung parliament. I doubt the new Farage-ist party aka the Brexit Party, would get more than a couple of seats even if they were very lucky. Under our FPTP system UKIP failed to make a break when they were at their zenith in 2015. We were given a chance to return a 'Brexit Parliament' two years ago but we failed to do so.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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If she called an election we would end up with a Labour Government in my opinion, she is more disliked than Thatcher at this moment in time.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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Thatcher was brought down when her policies were no longer attacked and all the venom was aimed at her personally regardless of the truth or what was best for the country. This method of displacing a leader certainly works.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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When exactly was Margaret Thatcher in power

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 13 weeks ago

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"When exactly was Margaret Thatcher in power "

Between Callaghan and Major and was party leader from when I was born and through almost all of my youth. In power all through the 80s.

Easy to google if you don’t know Danny. Im surprised at you lol.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 13 weeks ago

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I'll add a little further to that Margaret Thatcher became Conservative Party leader in 1975 and prime minister in May 1979. She left office in November 1990. Oddly enough the main excuse for her downfall was her stance on Europe although I'm more inclined to think it was the badly thought out Community Charge [dubbed the Poll Tax] was the real reason.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 13 weeks ago

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"When exactly was Margaret Thatcher in power

Between Callaghan and Major and was party leader from when I was born and through almost all of my youth. In power all through the 80s.

Easy to google if you don’t know Danny. Im surprised at you lol. "

I was just being lazy at that particular time. Lol

I thought she was in power in seventys but she became leader in 1975

Just.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 12 weeks ago

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"If she called an election we would end up with a Labour Government in my opinion, she is more disliked than Thatcher at this moment in time."

I wish we had a Maggie Thatcher, in her prime, right now. She'd have put the cheese eating surrender monkey in his place, and shown up the East Germam Frau for what she is …. the power behind the EU.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 12 weeks ago

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Does anyone remember adolf Hitlers. Dream of having one rule all of Europe from Germany

Well his dream come true in end. He just did it. The wrong way

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By *oondog   profile verified by photo (M) 12 weeks ago

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If you read the books "the Path to Power" and "The Downing Street Years" then you'll get an appreciation of just how tight a ship Mrs Thatcher ran. She had a highly effective whip's office that pretty much sniffed out disagreement with her policies and drowned it at birth. She had no problem sacking ministers who did not support the line but at the same time she would pick replacements that had differing views to her and didn't surround herself with yes men. It was ok to disagree in private providing you were loyal in public.

Mrs Thatcher would not have allowed a referendum without being prepared for the outcome. The Poll tax is seen as her downfall but the reality is that wasn't her idea, she did allow it to go forward when she was distracted over a long period with issues with both Mark Thatcher and Carol, plus some serious health issues with Dennis. She'd lost some key supporters in the House (through death and illness) and had become out of touch. The opportunists used that to unseat her.

I do believe had she been PM now she would have gone back to the country a while ago with an election forcing every party to put their Brexit plan in their manifesto and expose the weaknesses. She wouldn't have had a second referendum in my view.

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By *ohnBoy67  (M) 12 weeks ago

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You're damn right there Moondog!

I loved watching Spitting Image, and the way they portrayed her as a bag-swinging ''Do as I say, or ELSE' leader!

She was pretty stubborn; but I believe that she did want what was best for the 'man-in-the-street' as well as the country as a whole.

I'm probably going to get a lot of stick from the Unionist Lefties UP North, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

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By *laveboypaul  (M) 12 weeks ago

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I voted leave a would do the same again

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By *heshire baldie  (M) 12 weeks ago

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"You're damn right there Moondog!

I loved watching Spitting Image, and the way they portrayed her as a bag-swinging ''Do as I say, or ELSE' leader!

She was pretty stubborn; but I believe that she did want what was best for the 'man-in-the-street' as well as the country as a whole.

I'm probably going to get a lot of stick from the Unionist Lefties UP North, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it."

I don’t think I’m a unionist leftie, but I agree with you. We need someone with the ability to see a path through all the bollocks (not just from the Conservatives but from the EC) and make a choice.

I believe the best choice is to slam the EU against the wall by the throat and tell them how it’s going to be. Metaphorically, of course.

No-one in the Conservative Party current has those balls.

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By *asepaul71   premium paying member (M) 12 weeks ago

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"When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?"

I like you was unsure first time round which way to vote but opted for remain if a second referendum took place, I would vote leave

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 12 weeks ago

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I think a lot of people would change their vote and many who were undecided would now have stronger views for lots of different reasons.

However I think the changes would occur both ways and we would end up around 50/50 just as we did the first time round.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 12 weeks ago

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"I think a lot of people would change their vote and many who were undecided would now have stronger views for lots of different reasons.

However I think the changes would occur both ways and we would end up around 50/50 just as we did the first time round. "

probably correct there

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 12 weeks ago

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I think you are right Mikey1973. Watching various TV programmes in which ordinary people are interviewed on the subject and talking to people in real lfe, some would change the way they voted and for various reasons. Some who previously voted to leave say they would now vote to stay because they are sick and tired of the who Brexit process. Others, who voted to remain, now see the EU Commission as a nasty, corrupt dictatorial body and would vote leave now just to get away from it. So the result would probably be as close as before.

To be honest I'm not sure how I would vote presented with a 2nd referendum.

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*ixtyniner By *ixtyniner  (M) 12 weeks ago

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"When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?"

There never was any doubt for me. I voted remain, and continue as a remainer. 97% of the population of this country have absolutely nothing to gain by leaving the EU. The gainers are the big money people with large quantities of money to hide from the taxman, in the shape of offshore funds in tax havens. On March 30, the act requiring those with offshore funds to declare, and pay tax on those funds comes into being.

It hardly needs any intelect to imagine that these people have and will continue to go to great lengths to get us out of Europe. Some of the ammounts of money put into the out campaign are staggering. Altruism isnt foremost in the mindsof these people, as you may imagine.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 12 weeks ago

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Rich people will always seek to hide money from the taxman and there will always be countries willing to make money by helping them.

The EU is a corporate cartel that allows corporations to move their headquarters to Ireland to pay lower rates of tax than they would here. After Brexit they will have to pay tax here.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 12 weeks ago

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"When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?

There never was any doubt for me. I voted remain, and continue as a remainer. 97% of the population of this country have absolutely nothing to gain by leaving the EU. The gainers are the big money people with large quantities of money to hide from the taxman, in the shape of offshore funds in tax havens. On March 30, the act requiring those with offshore funds to declare, and pay tax on those funds comes into being.

It hardly needs any intelect to imagine that these people have and will continue to go to great lengths to get us out of Europe. Some of the ammounts of money put into the out campaign are staggering. Altruism isnt foremost in the mindsof these people, as you may imagine."

You seem to be forgetting about the £9 million that Cameron and Co filched from government funds for a leaflet exercise. What were these vast sums for the leave campaign you speak of??

Also, you seem to be forgetting at least a couple of very strongly felt reasons for people wanting to leave, reasons that didn't need any propaganda in order to be salient. 6 wks to see a doctor of choice is now the norm. My own GP, when I last bumped into him, admits its because of EU workers. Wage suppression for the low paid because of the influx of cheap Eastern Europeans. An inability to have any meaningful say in how we're governed. Further decimation of our culture. The threat of Turkey joining the EU further diluting our culture. Ever closer political union, no thank you. Having to pay to subsidise lesser economies. And finally, but not least, a pride in being British. I think you'll find that the vast majority of leavers had all those things in mind when they voted, and that they didn't need any costly reminders.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 12 weeks ago

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There were certainly strongly felt reasons for people wanting to leave the EU .. Including myself.

The most popoular reason by far was immigration. The fear of diluting our culture and a feeling that we were not allowed to govern ourselves.

I don't agree that stopping immigration will in any way get you into the doctiors quicker especially as most doctors, nurses and chemists (or certainly a very high percentage) were not born in the UK so waiting times could become worse.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 12 weeks ago

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Hate to say this but yes the immigration problem did sway a lot of people when it came to the EU vote. The crazy thing is that the 'diluting of our culture' comes from non EU immigrants. Most EU immigrants blended in well with our 'way of life'. They made the effort to speak English, worked hard, paid taxes and made no attempt to impose any non-British 'ideology' upon us. A good few even went to church!

Picking up on one of Mr C's comments: I do wonder if the 'stage managed coup' attempt in Turkey had happened 6 weeks before the referendum, in stead of 6 weeks after---thus killing any chance of Turkey joining the EU---- would it have affected the outcome. I know a lot of people were very concerned about that country even being considered as a possible future EU member.

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By *annyboy87  (M) 12 weeks ago

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I agree with Mr nk

But the biggest problem in this country regarding immigration is the non eu ones

The EU ones tend to be here to work

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By *hemaligfreund   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"There were certainly strongly felt reasons for people wanting to leave the EU .. Including myself.

The most popoular reason by far was immigration. The fear of diluting our culture and a feeling that we were not allowed to govern ourselves.

I don't agree that stopping immigration will in any way get you into the doctiors quicker especially as most doctors, nurses and chemists (or certainly a very high percentage) were not born in the UK so waiting times could become worse."

As with most people, you are totally misunderstanding the point there...immigration is good for us, the immigrant population give more to the economy than they take out, our culture is enriched by experiencing theirs first hand. Of course if the UK government applied the free movement of people rules properly, the benefits would rise even more as those who were a burden on the state after 3 months of being here could be removed. As for not governing ourselves, that is complete nonsense. 13% of UK laws come from the EU, of which our MEPs supported over 95% of them, so there are only 0.65% of UK laws that we didn't want! In return for the myriad benefits of membership, that seems like a pretty good exchange to me, especially when the ones we didn't want relate to environmental protection, workers rights or tax evasion rules. Please explain which EU laws you don't like so we can understand your position on that one.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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"

As with most people, you are totally misunderstanding the point there...immigration is good for us, the immigrant population give more to the economy than they take out, our culture is enriched by experiencing theirs first hand. "

Quite a sweeping statement, a generalisation and not strictly true. We may need a certain amount of immigration and certainly a large percentage of people coming in from other EU countries has had a positive effect on the country because they are prepared to work and contribute to the economy and seem quite happy to blend in.. But we cannot open our doors willy-nilly to the rest of the world. We have a house shortage as it is and an over-burdened infrastructure. Despite falling unemployment there are still not enough jobs to go round. Immigration has to be controlled overwise we will end up as one enormous and unwieldly housing estate.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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“As with most people, you are totally misunderstanding the point there...immigration is good for us, the immigrant population give more to the economy than they take out, our culture is enriched by experiencing theirs first hand”

That is certainly not what I said or what I believe so no misunderstanding on my part and in the NHS we rely enormously on those from other countries.

I do believe that a very high proportion of those voting for Brexit think all immigration is bad and that the main aim of Brexit was to stop immigrants.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Anyone who tells you we need immigration is lying to you.

Unlimited unskilled labour has reduced wages for workers in this country according to the Bank of England. The extra workers do increase the total GDP of the country but as so many of them are on minimum wage they actually reduce the average wage, do you want a bigger GDP for the corporations or a higher average wage for the workers.

In this country we do have some skills shortages but these can be addressed by giving people work permits, we do not have to offer them citizenship.

With particular regard to the NHS we are the fifth richest country in the world we should be able to train all the medical staff we need, that we don’t is a failure of the political classes, and denies the opportunity to our own young people to train in a well paid skilled job.

It is cheaper to allow developing nations to spend their scarce resources on training doctors and nurses and then tempt them to come here with higher wages.

This is an insidious form of neo colonialism which steals the best and brightest people from a country and all the money it took to educate and train that individual, at the expense of the poor people who were taxed and yet get no benefit from that expenditure.

A five year work permit means we get a doctor we need until we can train our own, and when the doctor returns to their country of origin they have five years of experience and training in the latest medical practice. So we both benefit.

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By *om6565  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"When the vote to leave or stay was held I had no doubt whatsoever I voted remain and I was 100% certain.

If there was another vote now I don't know what I'd do!

I think a lot of what I've seen from the EU has been ugly and arrogant and I have less faith in it.

I was always a common market guy never in favour of closer political union and I definitely never wanted to adopt the Euro.

I've really enjoyed unlimited easy travel throughout Europe and I travel extensively.

If the new vote was stay or go I'd really have to think about it.

How about you?"

Well, I guess people are more confused than ever.

Personally, I would stick with my original vote.

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By *addude  (M) 2 weeks ago

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Nigel believes in and is backed by Health Insurance companies, you work it out

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*usansilkysubcd By *usansilkysubcd   premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 2 weeks ago

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"Anyone who tells you we need immigration is lying to you.

Unlimited unskilled labour has reduced wages for workers in this country according to the Bank of England. The extra workers do increase the total GDP of the country but as so many of them are on minimum wage they actually reduce the average wage, do you want a bigger GDP for the corporations or a higher average wage for the workers.

In this country we do have some skills shortages but these can be addressed by giving people work permits, we do not have to offer them citizenship.

With particular regard to the NHS we are the fifth richest country in the world we should be able to train all the medical staff we need, that we don’t is a failure of the political classes, and denies the opportunity to our own young people to train in a well paid skilled job.

It is cheaper to allow developing nations to spend their scarce resources on training doctors and nurses and then tempt them to come here with higher wages.

This is an insidious form of neo colonialism which steals the best and brightest people from a country and all the money it took to educate and train that individual, at the expense of the poor people who were taxed and yet get no benefit from that expenditure.

A five year work permit means we get a doctor we need until we can train our own, and when the doctor returns to their country of origin they have five years of experience and training in the latest medical practice. So we both benefit.

"

Or we could just train our own and not even bother with these ne’er do wells. A definite win for us.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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“Or we could just train our own and not even bother with these ne’er do wells. A definite win for us.”

A good idea. If we start now it should be up and running by 2039 lol.

Or a better idea .. let’s start in 1999 and it will be in time for Brexit.

Presuming of course that we can find enough trainees which is not very likely.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 2 weeks ago

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There are a lot more applicants than there are places, we just need to create more training places.

They say there is a shortage of nurses but less than 65% of suitably qualified applicants get a place.

With doctors the number of disappointed people is even higher.

Of course while we wait for them to train we can borrow some staff from abroad.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others.

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By *ayMan007   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others."

What Doctors are you actually talking about? You can be a Doctor of History, Doctor of English, Doctor of Mathematics etc etc. If you are talking about a Doctor of Medicine, then you need to say that!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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"It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others.

What Doctors are you actually talking about? You can be a Doctor of History, Doctor of English, Doctor of Mathematics etc etc. If you are talking about a Doctor of Medicine, then you need to say that! "

Terribly sorry headmaster. [retreats to corner in shame with dunce's cap on ] I thought it was obvious what I meant and, no doubt, did 99.99+ of other members on here.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 2 weeks ago

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"It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others."

Strangely enough the people who put themselves forward for training think they are suitable, and both professions are over subscribed and many people are turned down who would be more than able to perform to the highest standards.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 2 weeks ago

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"It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others."

A lot of very caring people still cannot make the grade to be a nurse and without foreign doctors our hospital would implode very quickly.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 2 weeks ago

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"It takes a special sort of person to be a doctor or a nurse. A lot of people just would not be suitable. I know I could never have done either.

People can adapt to some professions but not others.

A lot of very caring people still cannot make the grade to be a nurse and without foreign doctors our hospital would implode very quickly. "

This is very true. Some people seem to think the solution to the unemployment problem is to simply re-train people into other professions. You can hardly turn an unemployed scaffolder, with an aversion to blood, into a heart surgeon. Or a yob, with a thuggish reputation, into a caring nurse. The idea is as crazy as the reintroduction of military conscription as some silly old fogies suggest.

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By *aravaggio  (M) 2 weeks ago

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I don't understand why you have to have a degree to be a nurse, nowadays. I can only imagine that it is a barrier towards recruitment. What was wrong with the old fashioned Nurses Training College? …. had many a good shag from those places, in the past ….

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 7 days ago

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"I don't understand why you have to have a degree to be a nurse, nowadays. I can only imagine that it is a barrier towards recruitment. What was wrong with the old fashioned Nurses Training College? …. had many a good shag from those places, in the past …. "

The only barrier to recruitment is a lack of training places, there are plenty of applicants who are turned away.

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*avid93111 By *avid93111  (M) 7 days ago

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Would deffo vote out, sick of our country being told what to do, Even an elected party that may not be to my liking , at least it would be what the people voted for. , and I would accept it, that’s what’s called Democracy!!. But don’t tell the fucking Remaniacs

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 days ago

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"Would deffo vote out, sick of our country being told what to do, Even an elected party that may not be to my liking , at least it would be what the people voted for. , and I would accept it, that’s what’s called Democracy!!. But don’t tell the fucking Remaniacs"

Have you changed your mind? I voted Leave and want to go but I don’t kid myself that any decision now will be very democratic. If we cared about democracy I believe it would require another vote. But we want to leave and democracy doesn’t come into it.

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