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Nationalisation.

By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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There are many who believe nationalised industries are the way forward and others believe it would be a step backwards.

I can see why there might be anger when looking at profits private companies make when still doing a shit job .. but would public ownership be better? Could it work?

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By *ikkey69  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Yes the selling of of the water companys is a prime example.

No- one on this planet can live without water and to that end,means no-one should be allowed to own and profiteer from water.

Shareholders should not be permitted to exist.

The cost of supplying water and maintaining the infrastructure is the price the water should cost.

It should be a no profit no loss industry.

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*usansilkysubcd By *usansilkysubcd  (TV/TS/CD) 7 weeks ago

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Utility companies only work properly when they are privatised. I remember when they were in public ownership. Hosepipe bans and warnings were commonplace, not to mention the actual state of the water itself. Most rivers and beaches etc were unfit for anything to live in them. The private investment has helped to clean it all up and make it work properly. If it was state run again it would be back to the bad old days and cost billions to maintain. I would rather someone run them properly and make a bit of money out of it than the shite alternative.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Nationalisation was always a bit of a con. It was called Public Ownership but basically it meant these industries came under bureaucratic government control. Often meant no real modernisation and because of no competition, total stagnation. Entrepreneurs and captains of industry replaced by clueless civil servants and bureaucrats and usually headed by a failed ex government minister.

Having said that certain public utilities such as water, electricity and the post office probably should not have been denationalised. These affect everybody but were sadly very inefficient under state control. I certainly think renationalisation would be a major mistake as it would be very expensive and achieve nothing apart from the pretence of public ownership. There is perhaps a need for more regulation to stop customers becoming pawns in a business game, but renationalisation would be a backward step and a very bad idea.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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Whenever I think of nationalised industries I have a vision of over-staffing and union led industrial action causing chaos.

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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Nationalisation, in theory, is a good thing, hence why Corbyn & Co get a hard-on for it …… but there again, what turns Corbyn on is always a good thing … in theory!! In practice, it is rarely a good thing, because irrespective of who you get in to run it, at the end of the day they report to government and Civil Servants who don't have a scooby how to run a railway or a power plant or a bus network. By all means, nationalise the railways, but allow a team of people to actually run the show based upon agreed parameters, AND no union members are to be allowed on the books ….. difficult one, that. But as soon as a Tory Government takes over a nationalised railway system, put in place by a Labour Government, then it will be sabotaged from within, no matter how well it's actually performing.

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By *evealing  (M) 7 weeks ago

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I've worked for nationalised and private companies and one that was newly privatised. I know which I prefer! I recall the attitude of people in the newly privatised water company towards customers, they couldn't grasp that was where their wages and salaries came from! The privatisation of the railways was a mess and was ripe for going wrong!

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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And privatised prisons . But the bosses pay themselves huge amonnts of money and a lovely bug oension. Wether they fail dismally or not.

Yeah the private sector management are so good

for themselves. They have no idea about real life. They are in denial . They hate the country

Destroy the environment. Stop any social mobility. Never pay their taxes. They are worse than Communists. They are the me me me party.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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We we all know you hate the Conservatives and blame absolutely everything on them Mountain. However your friends Blair and Brown did not do a lot to reverse the privatisation trend.

Quite frankly I think that the privatisation of some prisons was a step too far especially when some so-called security firms like G4S have a very poor track record. I disagreed with the privatisation of the post office and have serious doubts about electricity and water since everyone depends so much on the.

I cannot see any advantage in re-nationalising the railways. That haven't been very efficient in public or private hands in the last 75 or more years.

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*9al By *9al  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government "

Using your rather disingenuous logic it could be said that Thatcher was influenced by the evil and disruptive Wilson .. and that Wilson was influenced by Stalin and Stalin was influenced by the Vikings ...... the blame culture is a complete nonsense.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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This is a c&p on another site from a guy much older and knowledgeable about Germany than myself.

We could learn that one of the major reasons Hitler lost the war was due to state ownership and state control of industry as well as everything else in his totalitarian government.

There was no limit to the amount of money he spent on producing tanks, planes, ships and munitions and it ran into many billions but no amount of money could counteract the fact that state owned or state controlled monopolies just cannot operate efficiently and produce the goods. If a country as regimental as Germany can't cope with state ownership then you might ask who could.

Interesting I thought.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Nk. There are no railways anywhere that arent subsidised. Blair and brown were NEW labour.

They tried to do something different but as usual , them being human an everything, got to close to the sun and crashed . Politicians get too far away, to disconnected, hav to make so many compromises. We're doomed.

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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"Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government

Using your rather disingenuous logic it could be said that Thatcher was influenced by the evil and disruptive Wilson .. and that Wilson was influenced by Stalin and Stalin was influenced by the Vikings ...... the blame culture is a complete nonsense. "

Although Margaret Thatcher once said that Tony Blair was her finest achievement. He certainly wasn't Labour as we know it, Captain! I think it was mentioned in an earlier thread that Blair didn't have the unions to contend with during his premiership, or at least, they were at their most ineffectual, therefore he could get away with being Tory-Lite.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government "

Rather fortunately really. Otherwise their thirteen years of supine rule would have been a major catastrophe rather than a mild disaster. Plus the austerity that followed would have made the recent austerity years look like a picnic.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Nk. There are no railways anywhere that arent subsidised. Blair and brown were NEW labour.

They tried to do something different but as usual , them being human an everything, got to close to the sun and crashed . Politicians get too far away, to disconnected, hav to make so many compromises. We're doomed."

Despite rumours of an alien takeover I suppose Blair and Brown could be acknowledged as human. Somewhat different to the automatons currently in charge of the Labour Party

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By *nello  (M) 7 weeks ago

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my opinion:

all basics that support lives of people must be under full control of government. this will include prices, quality etc.

if the commercialised it means this can be played almost uncontrolled.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Or the clown tthat is masquerading as a clown

Here he is , you know you love him, the one, the only . You dont get many of them to a pound.

Mr. Im a laugh . Bozo bojo. I cant believe it

your prime minister

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*etropolis By *etropolis   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government "

I think I'd prefer that to a one nation labour government.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Well you would !! You're a tory.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Blair & brown were not really in the Labour tradition they were both influenced by the evil Thatcherism & would have been quite happy in an old fashioned one nation Conservative government

I think I'd prefer that to a one nation labour government."

Shouldn't that be one NOTION Labour

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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"my opinion:

all basics that support lives of people must be under full control of government. this will include prices, quality etc.

if the commercialised it means this can be played almost uncontrolled."

Sounds like full blown communism to me. Employment is a basic. Housing is a basic, Food is a basic, clothing is a basic, education is a basic, transport is a basic, the provision of law and order is a basic...… yup, that's it comrades, communism in all its glory ……… any other bright ideas?? ….

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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"This is a c&p on another site from a guy much older and knowledgeable about Germany than myself.

We could learn that one of the major reasons Hitler lost the war was due to state ownership and state control of industry as well as everything else in his totalitarian government.

There was no limit to the amount of money he spent on producing tanks, planes, ships and munitions and it ran into many billions but no amount of money could counteract the fact that state owned or state controlled monopolies just cannot operate efficiently and produce the goods. If a country as regimental as Germany can't cope with state ownership then you might ask who could.

Interesting I thought. "

State ownership and control is great ….. as long as you don't have to interact with the outside world. I guess China got away with it for the longest period of time, but even they eventually had to succumb to commercial needs that meant dealing with outsiders.

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By *nello  (M) 7 weeks ago

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"my opinion:

all basics that support lives of people must be under full control of government. this will include prices, quality etc.

if the commercialised it means this can be played almost uncontrolled.

Sounds like full blown communism to me. Employment is a basic. Housing is a basic, Food is a basic, clothing is a basic, education is a basic, transport is a basic, the provision of law and order is a basic...… yup, that's it comrades, communism in all its glory ……… any other bright ideas?? …. "

always happy to see how you think.... it makes me my day....

you have forgotten sex, porno, dogging and cottaging areas, prostitutes, glory holes etc in your list...

BUT, of course you will be happy to have commercialised medicine, education (especially for smallest kids), water and gas supply....

especially in case of poverty your ideas are great! this way probably you are going to defeat social domestic problems... good done mate!!!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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A flaw in your argument there, _nello. No communist government has ever been very gay friendly. Not the done thing. So public urinals strictly for peeing and gloryholes a storeroom or attic where you stuff your old, worn out goods in case you ever need them again.

Whilst there is a valid argument for certain utilities Water, electricity, post office] to be state owned, they still have to be paid for by the users and, with no competition, prices would be controlled by the government and would creep up as before.

Whilst there needs to be some state regulation, and British, rather than foreign ownership, should be prioritised, re-nationalisation is not the answer. Indeed it would be a very backward step.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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The nordic countries are very socialist friendly.

And several steps ahead of the victorian

attitudes that Tories soooo love. Except wen applied to them . They invented the work house .

Sent children to their deaths in factories.

You are the backward steppers. And you are strivi g hard to bri g it all back again so you can feel superior to those who do t hav as much as you. Can i hav more please sir .

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Absolute poppycock and you know it Mountain. The Conservatives may not be perfect but they have progressed an awful lot over the years. For the record the Victorian era ended 118 years ago and even during her late majesty's reign the Conservatives underwent a radical transformation.

Sorry to say it is the Labour Party under Corbyn, and his string-pullers, who are harking back to the past. Sitting in their ivory towers sipping champagne and eating caviar canapes they are oblivious of the fact the world has moved on.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 7 weeks ago

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"

We could learn that one of the major reasons Hitler lost the war was due to state ownership and state control of industry as well as everything else in his totalitarian government.

There was no limit to the amount of money he spent on producing tanks, planes, ships and munitions... "

Which is fine, apart from it's factually incorrect. They ran a deficit economy, we'll pay for it later, they expected to plunder Europe to settle the books, which if you've ever been in debt you'll know never works.

Germany lost because from day one it lacked raw materials. Iron ore, rubber, petrol most key. They didn't have the merchant fleet we had to keep us supplied. Like the Japanese their war plan was to grab these resources as quickly as possible, then consolidate. They never got the chance to do that. At that point losing was inevitable.

You should watch Discovery and History channel, there's some good stuff on this. Also the railways cost the Germans, the problem with steam railways are that 25% of your movements are the movements of coal for the railways, that's one reason why British Rail modernised, reduce costs. Stretched to the limit, a Europe wide system, key points increasingly vulnerable to air attack, the obsession with transporting and murdering the Jews and others, we'd have all gone to the camps being gay, they literally, at risk of a bad pun, ran out of steam.

Throw in some appalling decision making at the top and their plans were always doomed to failure.

Sadly, as a species we learn nothing as America is finding out right now.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Oh for the good old days when only Tory supporters could quaff champagne and caviar and Labour supporters knew their place and were satisfied with fish and chips and a cup of tea. What a good thing that the Tories have been working over the past ten years to restore the situation where the rich did very nicely thank you and the poor and deprived suffered - but if only they would suffer in silence.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Well we all knew our secret Corbynite would try and turn the tables but the old propaganda of the far left has worn a bit thin over the years. Still you Labour supporters can keep your champagne and caviar. Neither are particularly pleasant. Now fish'n chips and a nice mug of tea---now you're talking

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 weeks ago

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There you have it - leave the things you find unpleasant to those you believe to be your inferiors. And as I have told you repeatedly, if I were a Corbyn supporter I would admit it openly - it is not something shameful that needs to be a secret. Assuming the being anti-Johnson means you must be pro-Corbyn is reductive and ridiculous - there are lots of other options between the two extremes.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Methinks the laddie doth protest too much. Although you are quick to pour scorn and derision on all Conservative you never once say anything against Mr Corbyn and are often ready to defend him. Yet to a true Liberal-Democrat his views would be just as repugnant as those of the Conservative ERG and even Boris Johnson who has yet to prove himself and show us exactly where he stands. I would put Corbyn and his ilk in the same category---if at the opposite end of the political spectrum--- as Farage and Co. Two dangerous extremists.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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The tories cant hark back to the past because they are still living there. Come on children keep up

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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You are all reese-smogs only more common.

Did you go to eton . NO! Didnt think so.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Nurse! Mountain has forgotten to take his medication again

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Sorry nurse. Got the wrong person. It's the delusional knight that needs his meds

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By *orcsfun  (M) 7 weeks ago

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I was going to comment on something in this thread but lost track wading througH! Is it about something important or just slagging people off..or is it checking their (there) spelling ??x

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Its all of those things.

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By *orcsfun  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Oops! A naughty H crept into my previous post! Sorry spellchecker! Thought I joined this site to meet other gay men for sex! Silly me !

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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"I was going to comment on something in this thread but lost track wading througH! Is it about something important or just slagging people off..or is it checking their (there) spelling ??x"

If we are absolutely honest it’s about slagging people off and not much else. It’s under the heading of politics because the so-called political “discussions” are so mind blowingly boring, vindictive, rude and nasty that the site wanted to separate these conversations from the normal ones as seen in the Lounge. To top it all every thread is practically the same and more repetitive than age-old bbc tv programmes regurgitated on Dave. The same posters say the same drivel over and over and bloody over until you think your head is about to burst.

I hope I’m not being unfair.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 weeks ago

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Whereas I may agree with some of what you say, there is a very easy option for those who find the Politics section boring or dislike it for any other reason - simply avoid it and stick to the sections you find interesting.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Sorry nurse. Got the wrong person. It's the delusional knight that needs his meds "

That's rich coming from a very delusional gentleman from the eastern part of a south-eastern country

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Whereas I may agree with some of what you say, there is a very easy option for those who find the Politics section boring or dislike it for any other reason - simply avoid it and stick to the sections you find interesting. "

Although written tongue in cheek (because I had to get up very early and after eating my cornflakes was at a loose end) .. I do think it would be very difficult to dispute any of what I said lol.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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I dispute that.

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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"my opinion:

all basics that support lives of people must be under full control of government. this will include prices, quality etc.

if the commercialised it means this can be played almost uncontrolled.

Sounds like full blown communism to me. Employment is a basic. Housing is a basic, Food is a basic, clothing is a basic, education is a basic, transport is a basic, the provision of law and order is a basic...… yup, that's it comrades, communism in all its glory ……… any other bright ideas?? ….

always happy to see how you think.... it makes me my day....

you have forgotten sex, porno, dogging and cottaging areas, prostitutes, glory holes etc in your list...

BUT, of course you will be happy to have commercialised medicine, education (especially for smallest kids), water and gas supply....

especially in case of poverty your ideas are great! this way probably you are going to defeat social domestic problems... good done mate!!!

"

Your mind works in mysterious ways, tell me, does logic have a place in your life? ….. maybe it's my fault for not understanding what you write, most of the time? Are you using translation software? "Good done mate"???????

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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Of course you dont understand. Sympathy, empathy,

charity, caring have no part to play in your money is God orientated world.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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" I dispute that."

You bloody would.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Whereas I may agree with some of what you say, there is a very easy option for those who find the Politics section boring or dislike it for any other reason - simply avoid it and stick to the sections you find interesting.

Although written tongue in cheek (because I had to get up very early and after eating my cornflakes was at a loose end) .. I do think it would be very difficult to dispute any of what I said lol. "

I certainly cannot dispute that

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By (user no longer on site) 7 weeks ago

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"Of course you dont understand. Sympathy, empathy,

charity, caring have no part to play in your money is God orientated world. "

Err …. remove money and quite quickly, you will follow. So don't give me the bleeding heart treatment. Whilst I'm a doctor, I'm not a doctor of medicine. If I was, I would prescribe for you a large dose of reality, to be taken on the hour, every hour, for the rest of your life. Trust me, it eases the pain of being on this mortal coil.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 weeks ago

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"Of course you dont understand. Sympathy, empathy,

charity, caring have no part to play in your money is God orientated world. "

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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I know first hand what privatization did to the rail industry, cant speak for the others.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 7 weeks ago

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"I know first hand what privatization did to the rail industry, cant speak for the others."

The rail industry was decimated by the unions and even today has the most militant unions around.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 7 weeks ago

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The unions didn't cause the deaths of railway workers by private contractors cutting corners to save money, or causing trains to de-rail by private contractors not doing the work they claimed to have done but took payment for the said work. Remember Jarvis?. MAC contractors were a firm that caused the deaths of four railway workers at Tebay in Cumbria by using condemned equipment and ignoring all aspects of safety simply to save money. Thankfully the boss of MAC. was jailed for nine years and his partner jailed for two, no doubt you are going to quote the strikes over the loss of guards on trains, if you knew how dangerous it could be to have trains without guards you may think differently. I was not in any union because I was a manager and senior PICOP with over 35 years on the railway.

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By (user no longer on site) 6 weeks ago

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Never mind nationalising the railways, bring back those carriages that didn't have the corridor or central aisle … you know, the ones you could only access directly from the platform ….. had lots of lovely sex in those when younger....

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By *nello  (M) 6 weeks ago

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"Never mind nationalising the railways, bring back those carriages that didn't have the corridor or central aisle … you know, the ones you could only access directly from the platform ….. had lots of lovely sex in those when younger.... "

in what century do you live?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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"Never mind nationalising the railways, bring back those carriages that didn't have the corridor or central aisle … you know, the ones you could only access directly from the platform ….. had lots of lovely sex in those when younger.... "

Stephenson's Rocket?

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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The pain of being on this mortal coil caused by people like you. Most people on this mortal coil are kind, generous, helpful generous.

Then there are your sort. Money money money

Avarice, me me me, i want i want. Take it from the mouths of children, fuck em sort of guy.

. I fine example. Boris would be proud.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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Oh and dont forget to mention the 35o million empire you built single handed AGAIN. And now youre a doctor!!! Walter Mitty come home.

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*usansilkysubcd By *usansilkysubcd  (TV/TS/CD) 6 weeks ago

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"The unions didn't cause the deaths of railway workers by private contractors cutting corners to save money, or causing trains to de-rail by private contractors not doing the work they claimed to have done but took payment for the said work. Remember Jarvis?. MAC contractors were a firm that caused the deaths of four railway workers at Tebay in Cumbria by using condemned equipment and ignoring all aspects of safety simply to save money. Thankfully the boss of MAC. was jailed for nine years and his partner jailed for two, no doubt you are going to quote the strikes over the loss of guards on trains, if you knew how dangerous it could be to have trains without guards you may think differently. I was not in any union because I was a manager and senior PICOP with over 35 years on the railway."

So you are saying there were zero railway deaths before they were privatised then? You have cherry picked one example out of thousands who work on the railways everyday.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 6 weeks ago

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"So you are saying there were zero railway deaths before they were privatised then? You have cherry picked one example out of thousands who work on the railways everyday. "

Do you appreciate the irony that our railways are owned in the main by foreign nationalised railways?

There will always be deaths in railways, but over the years the railways learned and adapted, from infrastructure, signalling, operations, construction of locomotives and rolling stock, and much more. Strong unions helped that development of the improvements of safety over profit in the pre 1948 period.

During the modernization process they did their best to protect workers as the very necessary cuts and reorganisation of Beeching took place. It can be argued with hindsight that mothballing, as they do in Germany, might have been a better option for some lines, locally the Hull to York line, further afield the Waverley route, the Great Central, Manchester Central down to the Midlands, and Oxford to Cambridge, are notable routes that would be profitable today. But they were destroyed in the main.

I'd agree in the 1970s the political landscape was such the Unions had too much power, and the devastating strikes that used to afflict the country seemed to be to no purpose. But what came next was horrific.

Scargill for his faults said if they didn't make a stand there would be no coal mining in this country, he was right, despite the country being built on coal, literally, there are vast reserves under your feet, there is no underground mining whatsoever in this country. Just a few open cast mines. The rest is imported from Australia, Venezuela, etc. Eco worries, clean burn research and technology was world leading in this country. There was a future for coal, but destroying the power of Unions meant an agreed managed decline of the industry, where people could be retrained, found new opportunities, and communities retain their cohesion and purpose thrown aside in favour of profit, cast aside entire communities destroyed. Don't believe me go. For a ride around once thriving communities in West and South Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Lancashire, South Wales, and into Scotland. See the devastated communities, run down, and left to rot. Cruel doesn't cover it.

Going back to railways, deaths on-site happened, but they were rare, and not due to cost cutting, reduced maintenance schedules, ridiculous timescales, or a make it last beyond its lifetime set of policies. All of these privatisations have the same problem, profit over quality. How many more dams are on the verge of collapse we don't know about due to inadequate maintenance for instance? We seem to have a lot of one in a million incidents with these things.

If British Rail received the funding that the privatised companies get we'd have the railways the world woukd envy. We'd still have worked leading research and development railway facilities, we'd still be building and exporting locomotives, rolling stock, and other technology. BR was much maligned, but the reality of what they faced politically doomed them to gradual failure and public opprobrium.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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Not strictly true Borederic. They are operated rather than owned by companies of which the major shareholders are the German, French and Dutch government. I don't like the idea at all but if they are prepared to invest money in our railways all well and good

I can't really comment about our rail service since I haven't been on a train for about 10 years. What I did not was that trains were a lot cleaner and smarter than they used to be before privatisation, but still not a patch on our European counterparts.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 6 weeks ago

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*Scargill for his faults*

We don’t really need to add to that. Scargill in his bid to bring down a democratically elected government and replace it with a communist influenced Labour government in turn ruled by an all-powerful Union run by Scargill backfired and in a stroke he wiped out any chance of coal mining continuing. Harold Wilson began closing the mines and closed more than any other party leader.

My detestation for Scargill is due to the way he stole the funds collected to feed hungry strikers and used the money to pay bands of thugs (flying pickets) to travel the country enforcing an unwanted strike.

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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That is a good reason. Im not sure about the communist bit.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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I am not cherry picking anything, I mentioned Tebay as I was personally involved with the investigation, and of course there were deaths prior to privatization but contractors were notorious for trying to carry out unplanned and unsafe work, myself and others in our role prevented a lot of it from being carried out, the contractors were only interested in profit, and if only one person died because of it it was one person too many. Want some more examples?.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 6 weeks ago

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"I am not cherry picking anything, I mentioned Tebay as I was personally involved with the investigation, and of course there were deaths prior to privatization but contractors were notorious for trying to carry out unplanned and unsafe work, myself and others in our role prevented a lot of it from being carried out, the contractors were only interested in profit, and if only one person died because of it it was one person too many. Want some more examples?."

There are plenty of examples of bad and dangerous practises both before and after privatisation. There is no way of knowing whether the situation would have been worse and more deaths would have been suffered if it had not been privatised. One of those unknowns.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 6 weeks ago

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Has anyone read the book Quintinshill rail disaster of 1915?

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By  *ountain    profile verified by photo premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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Has anyone read ' a hundred and something days of Sodom'

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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"Has anyone read the book Quintinshill rail disaster of 1915? "

Watched a TV programme once about railway disasters and quite a bit was devoted to the Quintinshill tragedy. A lot of troops lots their lives through exploding gas cannisters.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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Sadly there has always been deaths related to transport from overturned horse-drawn carriages through cars, buses, lorries, trains aircraft, ships to spacecraft. Recently in South Wales two linesmen were hit and killed by a train. Had they not been wearing protective ear-guards they might have heard it coming. A sad case of health and safety regulations backfiring..

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 6 weeks ago

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They were killed wearing earmuffs because the COSS in charge of the site of work should have appointed a Touch Lookout, and he didn't. Or he could have asked the signalman for a T3H, an emergency possession, which he didn't, if it was emergency work it should have been planned in to a T3, a total possession done usually after midnight, if the rail was unsafe for traction then the line should have been closed. They were killed by cutting corners.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 6 weeks ago

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"Has anyone read the book Quintinshill rail disaster of 1915?

Watched a TV programme once about railway disasters and quite a bit was devoted to the Quintinshill tragedy. A lot of troops lots their lives through exploding gas cannisters."

The book gives a lot of statements from those who were there. I thought it would be boring but it was a fantastic read.

Most deaths in all industries were due to a lack of health and safety knowledge and experience.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 6 weeks ago

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Quintinshill was caused by failures in the signal box, not following procedure, covering up for one another, inattention, then a calamitous combination of circumstances.

The design of coaches hadn't yet progressed to the levels we have today. Coal had was carried on board which is incredibly dangerous stuff, weapons, munitions, no accurate records of who was on board, it was a terrible disaster, as bad as if they'd made it to the front.

Lessons were learned and changes made.

But the nature of the universe is that accidents will always happen, it's how you mitigate them, learn from them, and try to learn from them by being open and honest not engaging in coverups.

I'm concerned about fam safety, privatisation of the water industry was profitable, bit they're all foreign owned for profit now. How safe is the water infrastructure? What about low lying regions, how safe are they from increasingly excessive high tides and storms? The 2007 Hull Floods were entirely due to negligence and a failure to maintain the infrastructure, also using pumps that don't work underwater, and locking the main water escspe routes. The only people who paid for that are those with increased or declined insurance premiums.

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*atamite By *atamite  (M) 6 weeks ago

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Nationalisation and privatisation work or fail on the basis of its actors. It's of no comfort to me if a service is not delivered on spec because of government bureaucracy and complacency or because of the constant desire of a private company to increase its profit margins. It's all about the ratio of cost to quality and the system which delivers the greatest return on that count must be the best.

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By *ikey1973   profile verified by photo (M) 6 weeks ago

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"Quintinshill was caused by failures in the signal box, not following procedure, covering up for one another, inattention, then a calamitous combination of circumstances.

The design of coaches hadn't yet progressed to the levels we have today. Coal had was carried on board which is incredibly dangerous stuff, weapons, munitions, no accurate records of who was on board, it was a terrible disaster, as bad as if they'd made it to the front.

Lessons were learned and changes made.

But the nature of the universe is that accidents will always happen, it's how you mitigate them, learn from them, and try to learn from them by being open and honest not engaging in coverups.

I'm concerned about fam safety, privatisation of the water industry was profitable, bit they're all foreign owned for profit now. How safe is the water infrastructure? What about low lying regions, how safe are they from increasingly excessive high tides and storms? The 2007 Hull Floods were entirely due to negligence and a failure to maintain the infrastructure, also using pumps that don't work underwater, and locking the main water escspe routes. The only people who paid for that are those with increased or declined insurance premiums."

The Hull floods of 2007 were due to the heaviest rainfall since the 1800s so not entirely due to negligence or failure on anyone’s part. More than £50m has been spent on defences in Hull and East Yorkshire since 2007, with a further £120m allocated to be spent.

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*oredEric By *oredEric  (M) 6 weeks ago

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Two of the four pumps in the main pumping station were out of action, the other two didn't work under water, they were inundated quickly and totally useless.

A man died while fireman, police, and ambulance stood around wondering what to do, he'd tried to clear a blocked clogged drain, got stick died. The gutters weren't cleaned properly to a maintenance schedule, they backed up, up came the water. I know I sat there wondering what the fuck was going on, and as it progressed how bad was it going to get. We were lucky, cut off for three days as roads became impassable. We only had £16,000 losses due to flooding. Others lost much more.!

Negligence played it's part. Someone should have been prosecuted for that!

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By (user no longer on site) 6 weeks ago

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"Never mind nationalising the railways, bring back those carriages that didn't have the corridor or central aisle … you know, the ones you could only access directly from the platform ….. had lots of lovely sex in those when younger....

in what century do you live?"

I must admit to not understanding the relevance of your question, nor do I believe you understand that a significant proportion of posters will fondly remember that particular style of carriage, for much the same reasons I do …….. In what century do I live????? ….. nope, sorry, still don't understand why you asked that.

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By (user no longer on site) 6 weeks ago

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"Has anyone read ' a hundred and something days of Sodom' "

What has the Marquis de Sade got to do with nationalisation of industry?

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By (user no longer on site) 6 weeks ago

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"Has anyone read ' a hundred and something days of Sodom' "

What has the Marquis de Sade got to do with nationalisation of industry?

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By (user no longer on site) 6 weeks ago

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"Has anyone read ' a hundred and something days of Sodom' "

What has the Marquis de Sade got to do with nationalisation of industry?

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