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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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Watching the news, can they really kick fart face out of office if they want, and would it be worth it so close to Biden being President?.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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Even if they could get enough votes [it requires a two third majority in the Senate] there may not be enough time to impeach him and get him removed from office. There is an amendment whereby the vice president can ask for him to be removed from office but I can't see Mike Pence doing that just to be president for a few days then cast into the political wilderness forever.

If they did go ahead with the impeachment, which that ghastly Pelosi woman want, it would bar him from ever standing as president again so they might push for that.

Love him, hate him or be totally indifferent towards him he has got a lot of support. He may have lost the election but he still got more votes than a good many winning presidents have done in the past. His best bet would be to sit tight, do nothing and walk away with what dignity he has left in 10 days time.

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By *eyley  (M) 1 week ago

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ah! But it goes further... in the chess game of politics. It has become clear that Republican voters voted for the Trump as an individual with no consideration of the person or persons representing them at the local level. If the Democrats impeach Trump, arrest the likes of Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley et al. Then the other Republican representatives will struggle to decide what future agenda they want to follow, particularly if there is no Trump in 2024.

If the Republicans can find another 'business man' to run for presidency, they can, at a stretch state they are voting for a form of Trumpism and perhaps provide a challenge. If not it will be a landslide.

Meanwhile, American Global corperations having been left reeling due to Trump's mismanagement of the Covid situation will have no choice to 'court' the Democrats to get some tax reliefs, employing inducing monies, trade links with China and Europe repaired etc. Investment in the middle East and Africa now a nice tit bit.

With the world fed up with America's poor Diplomacy over the last 4 years courtesy of Agent Orange, I think the world as a whole will initally put up two fingers!

(We did without you for the last 4 years, we can do without you for another 2....)

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By *eyley  (M) 1 week ago

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In fact it has started already....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q1jqbJM2v4

"Corporations halt donations to GOP who voted to overturn elections" (YouTube)

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 1 week ago

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"Watching the news, can they really kick fart face out of office if they want, and would it be worth it so close to Biden being President?."

I think it is worth it even as a symbolic gesture. It is a way of showing he is a toxic outcast and actions such as his incitement to insurrection are not tolerated in a democracy. Tolerating him and leaving him be for any reason are tantamount to tacit collusion.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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We sit here on our side of the Herring Pond assuming we know everything about what is going on in America but we don't. Listening to various news networks [not Fox News I might add] and reading various media sites, I think the jury is still out on Trump's presidency. Even the events of last Tuesday or whenever it was.

American politics can be pretty toxic. Far worse than here. Money talks. Corruption is rife. The rumour factory works overtime. The last two presidential elections have been fought between the worse candidates ever. We don't know the half of it. With all his bluster and showmanship Trump had done some good prior to the pandemic which he handled very badly. The economy was doing so bad, unemployment had fallen and he was the first president for a good many years who had not got his country involved in yet another foreign war.

I'm not defending him but perhaps he isn't so bad as people are trying to make out. Biden doesn't sound so wonderful either with some of his dodgy business deals but that is another story.

I think impeaching Trump would be purely vindictive and wouldn't necessarily go down well with his vast number of supporters. I hope he just bows out and I hope he has more sense than to try to win back power in the future.

We will see.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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You got that right about corruption over there, it is more or less accepted, racism is also alive and well over there, blatant.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 1 week ago

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I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable.

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*oredEric By *oredEric   profile verified by photo (M) 1 week ago

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"I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable."

He’s never been held accountable his whole life. How on Earth anyone could still give him the benefit of the doubt is a mystery. Last week he initiated an insurrection against the United States of America. The biggest threat to the country at this time is it’s president!

Last week was a dry run. On the fringes there are plans for armed uprisings in each state on the 19th! They’re actively organising while the authorities seemingly sit back and do nothing.

The attack last week they were intent on overthrowing the legally constituted government! This wasn’t a few people who are a tad miffed at what’s going on, they were a deranged violent mob on a mission!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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"I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable."

And of course you were there and you knew exactly what went on

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 1 week ago

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"I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable.

And of course you were there and you knew exactly what went on"

If we had to be there before having an opinion on what went on, nobody should be posting on this thread as I doubt any of us has just returned from Washington. It is clear beyond dispute that he incited the crowd to march on the Capitol and 'be strong', thus inciting them to unlawful action. He has never clearly condemned the 'great patriots' for their criminal activity. I hope that in future he will be denied all publicity - the worst possible 'punishment' for a narcissist. I will not be sorry if he suffers a bit in return for the suffering he has brought to so many Americans in the last four years. Good riddance.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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So even you have to admit that you rely on what the news tells us. There are conflicting reports as to who the rioting mob was made up of e.g. true Trump supporters, rent-a-mob, troublemakers. I'm certainly not condoning what happened but he did tell them to go home even if it was a bit late to do so, and he did sound quite contrite the next day. Still we all know you hate Trump, like you hate anyone who isn't a hard-lefty, so hence your Pelosian vindictiveness against him. I just want him to go quietly. Far less chance of any trouble that way.

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By *erseysub  (M) 1 week ago

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Why do the anti Trump people on here think the word 'fight' means to riot, burn and loot.

Heres something a famous ex leader of the Labour party happened to say :-

Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will fight to keep UK in EU www.irishtimes.com › news › world › jeremy-corbyn-s...

18 Sept 2015 — Jeremy Corbyn has vowed unequivocally that Labour will fight to keep the UK in the European Union

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 1 week ago

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"I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable.

And of course you were there and you knew exactly what went on"

I didn't have to be there to know about the holocaust.

I didn't have to be there to know about the suppression in Tiananmen Square.

I didn't have to be there to know about the program in Russia.

There is no defence for Trump's actions or inactions. I don't have to be American to support democracy, I just have to be human who believes in democracy.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 1 week ago

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"Why do the anti Trump people on here think the word 'fight' means to riot, burn and loot.

Heres something a famous ex leader of the Labour party happened to say :-

Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will fight to keep UK in EU www.irishtimes.com › news › world › jeremy-corbyn-s...

18 Sept 2015 — Jeremy Corbyn has vowed unequivocally that Labour will fight to keep the UK in the European Union

"

But we don't have the right to bear arms!!!!!

What was the guy with petrol bombs doing??? Had the gas station closed???

Getvreal!!!!!

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 1 week ago

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"So even you have to admit that you rely on what the news tells us. There are conflicting reports as to who the rioting mob was made up of e.g. true Trump supporters, rent-a-mob, troublemakers. I'm certainly not condoning what happened but he did tell them to go home even if it was a bit late to do so, and he did sound quite contrite the next day. Still we all know you hate Trump, like you hate anyone who isn't a hard-lefty, so hence your Pelosian vindictiveness against him. I just want him to go quietly. Far less chance of any trouble that way."

You repeatedly say that you are not condoning what happened, but attempt to excuse the person who (deliberately or foolishly?) threw fuel on the fire as if the two were not connected. Then again, someone who has said how much he 'warmed' to Trump during his term is highly likely to defend him now. I fail to see how holding him accountable for his actions is 'vindictive'. 'Letting him go quietly' is a form of tacit approval and assumes that he has no further dreadful acts up his sleeve. He simply does not have the personality type that will enable him to 'go quietly'.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 1 week ago

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"I believe the attempts to down-play Trump's toxicity and the importance of his incitement to insurrection are very dangerous. Allowing him to slink away into the rat-hole from which he emerged is just another way of agreeing with what he has done. He has to be held accountable.

And of course you were there and you knew exactly what went on

I didn't have to be there to know about the holocaust.

I didn't have to be there to know about the suppression in Tiananmen Square.

I didn't have to be there to know about the program in Russia.

There is no defence for Trump's actions or inactions. I don't have to be American to support democracy, I just have to be human who believes in democracy."

I agree.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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"

I didn't have to be there to know about the holocaust.

I didn't have to be there to know about the suppression in Tiananmen Square.

I didn't have to be there to know about the program in Russia.

There is no defence for Trump's actions or inactions. I don't have to be American to support democracy, I just have to be human who believes in democracy."

I fully understand what you are saying Scousedpw. You don't have to be somewhere to know something though some on here always seem to be experts on all things.

What happened in Washington was deplorable. Even if Trump was not intentionally trying to incite a riot his words were inflammatory and he did little to stop it.

I'm trying to take a rational view on this. Trying to remove him from office with only a week to go is a bit stupid to say the least and most of this is down to one person who has a personal vendetta against him and tried to get him impeached before.

Whether there were any voting irregularities we just don't know. Many have been alleged but none proven. A lot of people as using the old adage of 'no smoke without fire'. Prior to the lection all opinion polls repeatedly gave Biden a wider margin of victory than he actually got. I don't think there is any real doubt that Biden won.

Trumpism has become a bit of a cult in America. A dangerous cult and no previous president has had such a cult following. Trying to impeach or prosecute the president could incite more violence and more problems so better by far to let him bow out however ungracefully.

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By *eyley  (M) 1 week ago

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"

There is no defence for Trump's actions or inactions. "

But there appears to be some wiggle room in your responses which appears to allow for mitigation!!


"What happened in Washington was deplorable. Even if Trump was not intentionally trying to incite a riot his words were inflammatory and he did little to stop it."

Err... Trump was intentionally trying to incite the riot as for him doing little to stop it, I think you may have wanted to write that 'he did nothing to stop it'.


" Trying to remove him from office with only a week to go is a bit stupid to say the least and most of this is down to one person who has a personal vendetta against him and tried to get him impeached before."

Not stupid at all.... by having him impeached will prevent him from runnning for President in 2024 with the possibility of his off-spring running for Vice-President (you can forget about Mike Pence, his actions as a 'traitor' by Republican voters will not be forgotten).

"one person" who has a vendetta?????--- I think you'll find that 81,283,098 have a vendetta against one of the worst Presidencies in American History.

The fact that this will convert into the Politicians voting on the 'charges' of impeachment and are likely to find as a majority that he is guilty. I think your use of the word 'vendetta' does sound like a conspiracy theory.

Palosi in FACT did get him impeached before, there was no 'trying':

Note the following:

"The impeachment of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, was initiated on December 18, 2019, when the House of Representatives approved articles of impeachment on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The Senate acquitted Trump of these charges on February 5, 2020".


" Whether there were any voting irregularities we just don't know."

Actually we do know...

For example:

The Georgia Governor a Republican by the name of Brian Kemp, bowed to pressure from Trump to look into voter fraud:

He got a team to look at 15,000 votes. Not a collection that covered the policitical spectrum, but specifically democratic votes. Of that 15,000 only 2 (two!!!) were found to be 'fraudulent'. Those two votes came from 2 women who signed the voting declaration on behalf of their disabled husbands who were not able to write. Thereby in essence voting twice.

That's illegal.

But that was the extent apparently of wide spread voter fraud that you allude to.

More examples:

Please see the following link:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-55529230


" Many have been alleged but none proven. A lot of people as using the old adage of 'no smoke without fire'. Prior to the lection all opinion polls repeatedly gave Biden a wider margin of victory than he actually got."

That's simple:

Early voting and the press wanting a scoop, spoke to people who had voted early to get the voting trend.


" Trying to impeach or prosecute the president could incite more violence and more problems so better by far to let him bow out however ungracefully."

So, don't prosecute because of what might happen? If we had that attitude underpinning American Political policy then they would NOT have killed Bin Laden, or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Just a thought.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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You've certainly explained yourself better than most of the rabid anti Trumpers do, Seyley.

In truth we don't know all the detail or have all the facts at our fingertips. So many conflicting reports on so many media networks it is impossible to know what to believe. I'm keeping an open mind on the subject.

Like you say the Democrat dominated HOR did impeach Trump but the Senate overruled them. Could happen again as they don't have the necessary majority--2/3rds--to carry it through.

80+ million may have voted against him but almost 75 million voted for him. Hardly a tiny minority.

There is already concern about demos and possible insurrection in Washington and various state capitols next Wednesday. Impeaching Trump would only exacerbate this volatile situation. Debarring him from running for president in 2024 may not be a bad idea but that could be done by congress and the courts at a later date when things have calmed down. I doubt he would get the Republican nomination anyway and if he ran as a '3rd party' candidate---like George Wallace in 1968 or Ross Perot in 1992--his chances of winning would probably be nil

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By *eyley  (M) 1 week ago

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"80+ million may have voted against him but almost 75 million voted for him. Hardly a tiny minority."

Voted for him??? If you have lived or stayed in America for any length of time, one oddity becomes immediately apparent. The fact that Americans within their 'States' have an extreme 'silo mentality'.

It is on that basis that I could and would argue that 75 million people didn't vote for Trump but the local representative.

There is evidence of this yet again in the Georgia Run-off elections. With Trump clearly having his back to the wall, election fraud being trumpeted throughout the right-wing media, plus an atmosphere that he could do no wrong, yet the Georgia electorate decided to vote in a Black man and a Jew against a blonde republican candidate who courted (not romantically) a member of the KKK.As well as the possiblity of being prosecuted for insider trading as she got a heads -up on 'shares' in companies that are dealing with the Covid situation.

Don't forget a number of Gay and Transgender candidates have also been elected. Trump and Biden therefore benefited by local candidates being called...

Oddly (amusing irony) in the Geogia 'run-offs' the democratic candates had a lead of 11 - 13% in the early counting. Then........all of a sudden..... (more pauses for effect).... the Republican candidates narrowed the gap to witin 1% obviously narrowly losing. No declaration of voter fraud, which is obvious with the world and their cat watching the process very keenly.

As an aside I note Agent Orange (still bitter) has decided in the last few hours to reverse Barack Obama's decision on Cuba and has classified Cuba to be a Terrorist State...SORRY, WHAT?

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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I admit that I have never been to America and very much doubt I ever will. I took an interest in American politics at a very early age and did a paper on the subject as part of my history of politics college course. I also get info from my son, who has lived and worked in the States for over 12 years, and from his father-in-law who is an American businessman and, what I would call, a reluctant Trump supporter.

I cannot remember the exact formula by which the Electoral College is formed. Whether they vote for individual electors, rather than the presidential candidate, or whether the state legislators appoint the electors subject to how the presidential vote went. All very complicated and surprisingly archaic for such a 'modern' country.

So I would argue that those 75 million who voted for Trump knew exactly who they were voting for. I'm certainly not saying that they are all fanatical Trumpians. Far from it. Some would vote Republican because they always have, some would have voted against Biden, some would have seen him as the lesser of the two evils and perhaps some voted for him because he has the same colour hair as their pet cat.

What I am basically saying is that whilst the vast majority of Americans accept the democratic result there is a small minority who wont and are out to cause trouble so doing anything to incite them is unwise to say the least.

I think in 2016 Trump was quite shocked to win but in 2020 even more shocked to lose. I just wish he would concede defeat, however grumpily, and fade away.

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By *eros54  (M) 1 week ago

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"So I would argue that those 75 million who voted for Trump knew exactly who they were voting for. I'm certainly not saying that they are all fanatical Trumpians. Far from it. Some would vote Republican because they always have, some would have voted against Biden, some would have seen him as the lesser of the two evils and perhaps some voted for him because he has the same colour hair as their pet cat."

Of course that is correct but it applies equally to every politician ever elected and to every party looking for a leader etc etc. There are numerous reasons why one votes the way they do.

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*atamite By *atamite  (M) 1 week ago

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I never imagined that we'd see scenes in the US like we have this past week. It's been telling that some on the Trump side have tried to equivocate with 'but, but, but what about Antifa/BLM looting during the Summer'

Well, A) It's possible to condemn both things at once, and B) We've seen protests devolve into riots at times with the cynical opportunism of looting that takes place along with that, and it is always contemptible and criminal, but last Wednesday we saw rioters being led to their target by the literal President of the United States, drunk on anger from his absolutely flagrant lies. Now, that is a whole other level. Remember that time Joe Biden held a rally for BLM/Antifa in Seattle before leading them downtown to smash up the place? No, me neither.

Really sad to see the dark place the U.S. is in right now, politically.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 1 week ago

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Looks like a lot more trouble is coming, maybe a lot of lives being lost.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 7 days ago

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The Democrats were wrong in asking/demanding that Mike Pence invoke the 25th amendment. It should not have been left to the Vice President to try to remove the President.

Congress should have moved to impeachment straight away.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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'So, don't prosecute because of what might happen? If we had that attitude underpinning American Political policy then they would NOT have killed Bin Laden, or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Just a thought.'

Indeed. I am reminded of the old saying to the effect that the way for evil to flourish is for good people to do/say nothing. Standing by and allowing narcissistic bullies (I'm being polite) to have their way is collusion and imagining that Trump will just fade away is pure fantasy. Bullies thrive on people being afraid to stand up to them for fear of the consequences. I admire all those who are standing up to Trump regardless of their political persuasion.

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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Old fart face is convinced it is a witch hunt and he is the victim, he is still inciting people to rebel the guy isn't real is he.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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"'So, don't prosecute because of what might happen? If we had that attitude underpinning American Political policy then they would NOT have killed Bin Laden, or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

"

Strange and hardly relevant comparison. With hindsight the USA and,indeed, the UK getting involved in foreign wars has brought a lot of misery and destruction and probably made the world an even less safe place. However I doubt very much if the killing of Bin Laden or al Baghdadi caused rioting on the street of Washington or any other US state capitol. Possibly a bit of rejoicing as these terrorist had caused the deaths of countless thousands.

However much he might try to deny it Trump's goading of his supporters was wrong. No question about that. However trying to remove him from office with only days to go before his term is up is only going to inflame an already tense and dangerous situation. Far better to just let him go and perhaps look at some kind of prosecution or censure once the new administration is firmly in place and the heat has died down.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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The belief that it is possible to just let Trump go quietly is, in my opinion, very naive. That is just not within the bounds of his narcissistic personality. He still poses a great danger, especially as he still believes his words when inciting violence were perfectly 'appropriate'. Impeachment may be nothing more than a symbolic rebuke, but I believe even that is better than tacit collusion.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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Proposing a symbolic thing like impeachment, that could incite violence and insurrection, is extremely naive. Not the way to handle this inflammatory situation at all. The situation in America looks very tense and needs defusing in the best way possible. With the way systems work it would be highly unlikely if a successful impeachment would remove Trump from office before the weekend. So in other words a rather pointless and dangerous symbolic gesture. Would probably lead to the temporary postponement of the inauguration of the new president, or at least a very watered down affair without the usual ceremony and razzmatazz. Hardly something that would please anyone or defuse a potentially volatile situation.

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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"Proposing a symbolic thing like impeachment, that could incite violence and insurrection, is extremely naive. Not the way to handle this inflammatory situation at all. The situation in America looks very tense and needs defusing in the best way possible. "

A bit of a contradition surely?

'Agent Orange', 'The Don', 'EL Trumpy' caused cult members to run amok by inciting violence, insurrection and an attempted Coup, (another £ in your swear box), but putting charges to the 'House' you feel that this would make the situation more tense?

Leaving the maniac without any penalty & formal restrictions would allow him to use his millions to goad the Trump-'pets' to try and derail democracy at the seat of power.

Just to clear things up, Democratic voters and supporters don't see the Trump 'fans' as a threat to them, i.e coming for them in the dead of night to take them away from their safe warm beds.

They just don't some idiot shooting up the place in the Cinema as people are watching the 'Tenet', just to make a point about the 'Steal'.

Democrats want the Police, national guard and security services to prove that they aren't in cohorts with the conspiry theorists.

That's it.

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*atamite By *atamite  (M) 7 days ago

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"'So, don't prosecute because of what might happen? If we had that attitude underpinning American Political policy then they would NOT have killed Bin Laden, or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Strange and hardly relevant comparison. With hindsight the USA and,indeed, the UK getting involved in foreign wars has brought a lot of misery and destruction and probably made the world an even less safe place. However I doubt very much if the killing of Bin Laden or al Baghdadi caused rioting on the street of Washington or any other US state capitol. Possibly a bit of rejoicing as these terrorist had caused the deaths of countless thousands.

However much he might try to deny it Trump's goading of his supporters was wrong. No question about that. However trying to remove him from office with only days to go before his term is up is only going to inflame an already tense and dangerous situation. Far better to just let him go and perhaps look at some kind of prosecution or censure once the new administration is firmly in place and the heat has died down."

How about this deal, Democrats can agree not to stoke tensions by prosecuting Trump, if Trump agrees to do the same by aggressively promoting this conspiracy theory about a stolen election, thus riling up his own supporters?

Otherwise, what would be the point of Trump's opponents taking the high road of not inflaming things, if Trump's just going to do that same thing himself? It would lead to the same talking point a year later, "Oh, we can't prosecute Trump, because things are too tense, right now." Yeah, that would be because it's in Trump's interest to keep things tense. He'd get to say what he wants *and* not be prosecuted. Perfect for a blowhard like him.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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'Leaving the maniac without any penalty & formal restrictions would allow him to use his millions to goad the Trump-'pets' to try and derail democracy at the seat of power.'

I'm with you there. Ignoring what Trump has said and done in order to appease him and hope he will go quietly sets a far more dangerous precedent than following a legal, democratic procedure that may not please Trump supporters and apologists.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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You all seem to be missing the point. There is a very good chance that the fanatical Trump supporters will take to the streets if their 'hero' is impeached. Is it really worth inflaming the situation at this late stage? Far better to let things take their natural course, get the new president inaugurated and his new administration in place THEN look into what happened last week and prosecute if proven. I just cannot see the point of stirring things up just to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early.

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*atamite By *atamite  (M) 7 days ago

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"You all seem to be missing the point. There is a very good chance that the fanatical Trump supporters will take to the streets if their 'hero' is impeached. Is it really worth inflaming the situation at this late stage? Far better to let things take their natural course, get the new president inaugurated and his new administration in place THEN look into what happened last week and prosecute if proven. I just cannot see the point of stirring things up just to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early."

I think you're leaving aside the possibility that Trump's followers would kick off if the impeachment happens now or a year from now.

Besides, they won't be able to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early. I understand the current plan is to wait until the first 100 days has elapsed to bring it forward to the Senate. What point in impeaching a former president, you ask? 1. You cannot pardon yourself for what you're being impeached about. 2. An impeached and indicted president can never run for office again.

At what point does one stand up to a bully like Trump and his whole odious movement?

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*kws By *kws  (M) 7 days ago

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I notice that the 'American Hawaii Born' president is now getting into all the media, wonder why?

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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"You all seem to be missing the point. There is a very good chance that the fanatical Trump supporters will take to the streets if their 'hero' is impeached. Is it really worth inflaming the situation at this late stage? Far better to let things take their natural course, get the new president inaugurated and his new administration in place THEN look into what happened last week and prosecute if proven. I just cannot see the point of stirring things up just to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early.

I think you're leaving aside the possibility that Trump's followers would kick off if the impeachment happens now or a year from now.

Besides, they won't be able to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early. I understand the current plan is to wait until the first 100 days has elapsed to bring it forward to the Senate. What point in impeaching a former president, you ask? 1. You cannot pardon yourself for what you're being impeached about. 2. An impeached and indicted president can never run for office again.

At what point does one stand up to a bully like Trump and his whole odious movement?

"

I agree

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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"I notice that the 'American Hawaii Born' president is now getting into all the media, wonder why? "

Whats his birth location got to do with anything?

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By *ewtonnude  (M) 7 days ago

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In time I'm sure Trump will be considered to be one of the "better" American presidents. He might have a marmite character but he has undoubtedly had a lot of success : https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/opinion/fact-check-trump.html

Plus: The 1st president not to start a new war in four decades, successful economy, real tax cuts for the working class, troops out of Somalia, 5 significant peace treaties - 4 in the Middle East. No other administration has done this much in recent times.

During the last four years, the Democrats and the media have done nothing but hinder the elected president. Even in the last few days that want to impeach him despite their guy "getting elected" - very distasteful

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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The list of negative things he has done is just as long. I think his words and actions since the November election have sealed the way he will be viewed by history - a dysfunctional narcissist.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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Opinions about his presidency are mixed. All depends what angle you look at it from. He has always been a bit of a loose cannon. The one thing most will agree on is that he has behaved in a deplorable manner since losing the election and that will no doubt mar his legacy.

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By *ayMan007   profile verified by photo (M) 7 days ago

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"Opinions about his presidency are mixed. All depends what angle you look at it from. He has always been a bit of a loose cannon. The one thing most will agree on is that he has behaved in a deplorable manner since losing the election and that will no doubt mar his legacy."

I totally disagree! I think he behaved in a deplorable manner since well before he lost the election!

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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"

Plus: The 1st president not to start a new war in four decades, successful economy, real tax cuts for the working class, troops out of Somalia, 5 significant peace treaties - 4 in the Middle East. No other administration has done this much in recent times."

Literally pissed myself laughing:

Let's start with the the 'new-war' nonsense;

Obama inherited the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, and various aspects of the War on Terror, all of which began during the Bush administration. He presided over the gradual draw down of U.S. soldiers in Iraq, culminating in the near-total withdrawal of U.S. soldiers from Iraq in December 2011.

I'm glad to have cleared that up for you...

As for 5 significant peace treaties (what a hoot)

Here's one such example of a Trump made deal and the conditions that were implemented in order to get that signature:

"Trump also recently bullied Sudan into embracing Israel in return for lifting a veto on desperately needed assistance from the World Bank and IMF. Khartoum first had to pay $335m the US said it owed to American victims of terrorism.

Sudan has also been taken off the US list of state sponsors of terrorism. This is hardly generous. Washington should have done all this for free last year, after Omar al-Bashir’s dictatorship was overthrown".

The other treaties (not peace treaties) come with similar benefits to Isreal.


" During the last four years, the Democrats and the media have done nothing but hinder the elected president. "

Because he's a Twat! A liar and a buffoon. His handling of the Covid Crisis has been nothing short of criminal negligence.


"Even in the last few days that want to impeach him despite their guy "getting elected" - very distasteful "

Just for clarification are you saying that what happened on Capitol Hill wasn't very distasteful and should be ignored then?

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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"Opinions about his presidency are mixed. All depends what angle you look at it from. He has always been a bit of a loose cannon. The one thing most will agree on is that he has behaved in a deplorable manner since losing the election and that will no doubt mar his legacy.

I totally disagree! I think he behaved in a deplorable manner since well before he lost the election!"

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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Remember 4 years ago....

Laughing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NPPE6a7mSI

(A link that works)

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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"Opinions about his presidency are mixed. All depends what angle you look at it from. He has always been a bit of a loose cannon. The one thing most will agree on is that he has behaved in a deplorable manner since losing the election and that will no doubt mar his legacy.

I totally disagree! I think he behaved in a deplorable manner since well before he lost the election!"

Fair enough. You have a right to have an opinion. His behavior could be described as an 'acquired taste' to say the least. He has often made me cringe with some of his outbursts but I, personally, would not describe his behavior as deplorable prior to November. For the record I am not a fan of his VP or the incoming president and the VP elect. And I am most certainly not a fan of the vindictive speaker of the HOR. American politics leaves a lot to be desired these days.

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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"....I am most certainly not a fan of the vindictive speaker of the HOR. American politics leaves a lot to be desired these days."

The second time you've used the word 'vindictive' !!

Examples please..

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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"....I am most certainly not a fan of the vindictive speaker of the HOR. American politics leaves a lot to be desired these days.

The second time you've used the word 'vindictive' !!

Examples please.."

Nancy Pelosi--the wicked with of the west--is a nasty piece of work. She has virtually made it her mission to get Trump out of office. She was behind the first attempt to impeach him on trumped up [excuse the pun] which the senate rejected. She, more than anyone else, is pushing for this latest impeachment attempt. She announced prior to the 'storming of the capitol' that she would 'drag Trump out of the White House by his ankles'. Hardly a pleasant or dignified comment by someone who would herself become acting president if Trump was compelled to resign and Mike Pence run over by a bus.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 7 days ago

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"Opinions about his presidency are mixed. All depends what angle you look at it from. He has always been a bit of a loose cannon. The one thing most will agree on is that he has behaved in a deplorable manner since losing the election and that will no doubt mar his legacy.

I totally disagree! I think he behaved in a deplorable manner since well before he lost the election!

Fair enough. You have a right to have an opinion. His behavior could be described as an 'acquired taste' to say the least. He has often made me cringe with some of his outbursts but I, personally, would not describe his behavior as deplorable prior to November. For the record I am not a fan of his VP or the incoming president and the VP elect. And I am most certainly not a fan of the vindictive speaker of the HOR. American politics leaves a lot to be desired these days."

It seems, therefore, that the only major player of whom you have a positive opinion is Orange Man himself. You have clearly 'acquired the taste'.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 7 days ago

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"

It seems, therefore, that the only major player of whom you have a positive opinion is Orange Man himself. You have clearly 'acquired the taste'."

I did not say that at all but you love twisting peoples words as usual.

For the record I didn't think much of the two presidential candidates in 2020 or their running mates. The same applied to the 2016 election although Tim Kayne [ think that was his name] the Democrat VP candidate seemed okay and was far, far better than the rest of the rabble put together.

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By *eyley  (M) 7 days ago

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".

Nancy Pelosi--the wicked with of the west--is a nasty piece of work. She has virtually made it her mission to get Trump out of office. She was behind the first attempt to impeach him on trumped up [excuse the pun] which the senate rejected. She, more than anyone else, is pushing for this latest impeachment attempt. She announced prior to the 'storming of the capitol' that she would 'drag Trump out of the White House by his ankles'. Hardly a pleasant or dignified comment by someone who would herself become acting president if Trump was compelled to resign and Mike Pence run over by a bus."

But Trump is a dangerous idiot who has his finger on the button, Her attempt to get his big fat sausage fingers away from world destruction is deemed to be vindictive?? Wow... Really?

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 7 days ago

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".

Nancy Pelosi--the wicked with of the west--is a nasty piece of work. She has virtually made it her mission to get Trump out of office. She was behind the first attempt to impeach him on trumped up [excuse the pun] which the senate rejected. She, more than anyone else, is pushing for this latest impeachment attempt. She announced prior to the 'storming of the capitol' that she would 'drag Trump out of the White House by his ankles'. Hardly a pleasant or dignified comment by someone who would herself become acting president if Trump was compelled to resign and Mike Pence run over by a bus.

But Trump is a dangerous idiot who has his finger on the button, Her attempt to get his big fat sausage fingers away from world destruction is deemed to be vindictive?? Wow... Really?

"

You could call it vindictive if you were being kind, otherwise you might consider asking the military to go against the lawful orders of the elected President an attempt at a military coup.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 6 days ago

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"Proposing a symbolic thing like impeachment, that could incite violence and insurrection, is extremely naive. Not the way to handle this inflammatory situation at all. The situation in America looks very tense and needs defusing in the best way possible. With the way systems work it would be highly unlikely if a successful impeachment would remove Trump from office before the weekend. So in other words a rather pointless and dangerous symbolic gesture. Would probably lead to the temporary postponement of the inauguration of the new president, or at least a very watered down affair without the usual ceremony and razzmatazz. Hardly something that would please anyone or defuse a potentially volatile situation."

But it is not symbolic. He will not be allowed to hold office. That is the punishment.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 6 days ago

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"You all seem to be missing the point. There is a very good chance that the fanatical Trump supporters will take to the streets if their 'hero' is impeached. Is it really worth inflaming the situation at this late stage? Far better to let things take their natural course, get the new president inaugurated and his new administration in place THEN look into what happened last week and prosecute if proven. I just cannot see the point of stirring things up just to remove him from office 3 or 4 days early."

Sorry NK, but that sounds like the appeasement that Chamberlain brought back in 1938. Look where that got us.

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By *cousedpw   profile verified by photo (M) 6 days ago

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"....I am most certainly not a fan of the vindictive speaker of the HOR. American politics leaves a lot to be desired these days.

The second time you've used the word 'vindictive' !!

Examples please..

Nancy Pelosi--the wicked with of the west--is a nasty piece of work. She has virtually made it her mission to get Trump out of office. She was behind the first attempt to impeach him on trumped up [excuse the pun] which the senate rejected. She, more than anyone else, is pushing for this latest impeachment attempt. She announced prior to the 'storming of the capitol' that she would 'drag Trump out of the White House by his ankles'. Hardly a pleasant or dignified comment by someone who would herself become acting president if Trump was compelled to resign and Mike Pence run over by a bus."

Actually she's further down the list.

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By *eyley  (M) 6 days ago

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As she sat in her temporary office and finished snacking on a buttered crumpet, she pointed with her wizened finger at the delusional ol' Trumpy and said:

"You're Fired"

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By *eyley  (M) 6 days ago

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How does Trumpy feel about Muslims?

Well the person who organised the 'stop the steal' movement goes by the name of.....

Ali Abdul-Razaq Ali.

You couldn't make this up!

Ooh the irony!

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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"

Sorry NK, but that sounds like the appeasement that Chamberlain brought back in 1938. Look where that got us."

Arguably it got us 12 months breathing space which gave us time to re-arm and prepare for a war which everyone, including the reluctant Chamberlain, knew was coming.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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"

Nancy Pelosi--the wicked with of the west--is a nasty piece of work. She has virtually made it her mission to get Trump out of office. She was behind the first attempt to impeach him on trumped up [excuse the pun] which the senate rejected. She, more than anyone else, is pushing for this latest impeachment attempt. She announced prior to the 'storming of the capitol' that she would 'drag Trump out of the White House by his ankles'. Hardly a pleasant or dignified comment by someone who would herself become acting president if Trump was compelled to resign and Mike Pence run over by a bus.

Actually she's further down the list."

In the event of the death, resignation or removal from office of the president the vice president would automatically be sworn in as president. In the unlikely event of the vice president being unavailable or incapacitated the next in line would be the speaker of the HOR who would be sworn in as acting-president. The current speaker of the HOR is of course Nancy Pelosi.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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"As she sat in her temporary office and finished snacking on a buttered crumpet, she pointed with her wizened finger at the delusional ol' Trumpy and said:

"You're Fired""

Not difficult to imagine Pelosi wearing a pointy black hat and cape, riding on a broomstick on Hallowe'en

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By *atureNudist51   profile verified by photo (M) 6 days ago

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I wonder if Donald or members of his family will enjoy reading the history books that will be written on his spell as President ?

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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Having witnessed the extent of his narcissism and sociopathy during his term, I wouldn't be surprised if he writes his own version, in which he won the election but was hounded by that dreadful woman. It's all her fault and nothing to do with his own ('appropriate') words and actions. Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

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By *eyley  (M) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here."

PMSL

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

"

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint

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*essa_M By  *essa_M    profile verified by photo premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint"

And some people won't accept when they are wrong. Even when their words are quoted back to them

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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I wonder who that might be Tessa?. You find most Tory supporters tend to have the same traits as the party they support, always right, never ever wrong despite the fact it is crystal clear they are and can be proved to be wrong, but there you go, things going swimmingly with the virus pandemic and brexit all done and dusted----- NOT.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint

And some people won't accept when they are wrong. Even when their words are quoted back to them"

Well that can't apply to me on this thread because I've been factual and non-judgemental from my digs at that evil old crone Pelosi. Even then I was sticking to the facts and just giving mt personal opinion.

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By *hiteheaded  (M) 6 days ago

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well mr Trump you bought all this on your self, and hes has only his self to blame his trouble is he never knows when to shut up or even remember what he said more thn one day ago ,

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint

And some people won't accept when they are wrong. Even when their words are quoted back to them

Well that can't apply to me on this thread because I've been factual and non-judgemental apart from my digs at that evil old crone Pelosi. Even then I was sticking to the facts and just giving my personal opinion."

Note added the word 'apart and corrected a spelling mistake before the Spelling Stasi get me.

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*essa_M By  *essa_M    profile verified by photo premium paying member (TV/TS/CD) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint

And some people won't accept when they are wrong. Even when their words are quoted back to them

Well that can't apply to me on this thread because I've been factual and non-judgemental apart from my digs at that evil old crone Pelosi. Even then I was sticking to the facts and just giving my personal opinion.

Note added the word 'apart and corrected a spelling mistake before the Spelling Stasi get me."

Me thinks the man doth protest too much

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 6 days ago

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" .

Me thinks the man doth protest too much"

I'm not protesting at all. Just having a bit of a laugh.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 6 days ago

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" Some people already seem prepared to accept that version, even on here.

Some people on here will believe any old rubbish as long as it fits in with their very narrow viewpoint

And some people won't accept when they are wrong. Even when their words are quoted back to them

Well that can't apply to me on this thread because I've been factual and non-judgemental apart from my digs at that evil old crone Pelosi. Even then I was sticking to the facts and just giving my personal opinion.

Note added the word 'apart and corrected a spelling mistake before the Spelling Stasi get me.

Me thinks the man doth protest too much"

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By *parta1  (M) 5 days ago

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The bigger picture is trump is just a scapegoat that allows the left to demonise the right. Its politics. Its thatcher all over again....the left will pursue witchunts for the next term in order to demonise the whole republican party and scare people from voting for them. Very dangerous political situation, as a balanced opposing two party system is a healthy democracy they keep each other in check. So i expect a big swing to extreme left politics in the US.

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By *parta1  (M) 5 days ago

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It all boils down to this simple truth:

"Just remember. The last thing the Globalist elite/billionaires want is everyone to unite against them."

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 5 days ago

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Trump is not a scapegoat. He is merely subject to the consequences of his unhinged words and actions, which has nothing to do with a witch-hunt. Unlike his ongoing claims that he won the election, there is nothing fake about the things of which he stands accused.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"The bigger picture is trump is just a scapegoat that allows the left to demonise the right. Its politics. Its thatcher all over again....the left will pursue witchunts for the next term in order to demonise the whole republican party and scare people from voting for them. Very dangerous political situation, as a balanced opposing two party system is a healthy democracy they keep each other in check. So i expect a big swing to extreme left politics in the US. "

Not sure if that is quite true. The so-called liberal elite and the establishment were left reeling when Trump was elected and have been gunning for him ever since. Remember all the 'Not My President' demos in his early days. So-called celebs, like Madonna, making a song and dance about him and coming out with outrageous inflammatory comment like blowing up the White House to get rid of him.

His early days were a bit chaotic to say the least. Basically he was a bit clueless about how to be a president even if he had a clear vision for America. Gradually he started getting his act together and started getting things done which, needless to say his naysayers hated. His downfall has probably been his mishandling of the Coronavirus, otherwise he may well have won a second term and easily.

What happens now will be interesting. I have serious doubts about Biden and some of the people he is bringing into government. They will still carry on demonising Trump to cover their own failures. The mid-term elections in 2022 will be interesting because, despite all the dirt they might try to stir up, there is every chance that the GOP might regain control of both houses of Congress. Over-shadowed by the presidential election, it went virtually unnoticed that the GOP made significant gains in the HOR and only just lost control of the senate.

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By *esperate jon  (M) 5 days ago

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We all on this site have to realise that over 74 million Americans voted trump? Weather we in this country agree of the way he ran the USA it was up to the voters to elect not us. Let's hope next Wednesday it goes smoothly for the incoming president as the whole world will be watching? But as said 74 million people liked him.

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Gradually he started getting his act together and started getting things done..."

For example?

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"We all on this site have to realise that over 74 million Americans voted trump? Weather we in this country agree of the way he ran the USA it was up to the voters to elect not us. But as said 74 million people liked him."

I've cut and pasted the following because in my view the following sentiment catches the atmosphere of the American nation and the opinion is just about on point:

"...but they (Democrats)should understand that there was really no way to avoid disappointment. Three factors — the logic of partisan polarization, which inaccurate polling obscured; the strength of the juiced pre-Covid-19 economy; and the success of Mr. Trump’s denialist, open-everything-up nonresponse to the pandemic — mostly explain why Democrats didn’t fare better"....

"How could a president responsible for one of the gravest failures of governance in American history nevertheless maintain such rock-solid support? Democracy’s throw-the-bums-out feedback mechanism gets gummed up when the electorate disagrees about the identity of the bums, what did and didn’t occur on their watch and who deserves what share of the credit or blame"

If you are bothered/interested, I've included the link below, so that you may if you wish, you can put the argument that the quote above has been taken out of context:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/opinion/trump-democrats-coronavirus.html

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"Gradually he started getting his act together and started getting things done...

For example?"

Reduced unemployment

Lowered taxes

Began a comprehensive withdrawal of troops from foreign war zones

Probably quite a few more if I did some research.

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Reduced unemployment"

Oooh, do you mean that we should believe what he actually said in that he created 1 million jobs in the first month of his presidential office, that in the two and half months of 2020 prior to the Covid outbreak on the 16th March, 5.3 million jons were created....Nope, fake news!


"Lowered taxes"

Let's start with personal tax first. YES tax was reduced in peoples month/weekly pay packets.

BUT as you know Americans can claim tax rebates. Those tax rebates dropped 11.4% to an average of $2,535 in 2019.

In other words, what was given in one hand was robbed out of the other. But it goes further, the shortfall from the reduced Tax rebates was used to make up the reduced corporation tax.


"Began a comprehensive withdrawal of troops from foreign war zones"

Trump’s campaign talk of Troop Withdrawals Doesn’t Match Military Reality

The Trump administration had already reduced US troop levels in Afghanistan from 14,000 last year to 4,500, under Mr Trump’s promise to conclude the “endless wars” of his predecessors (insert Obama becuase he couldn't possible be talking about Bush now could he?. The latest cutback would take force levels down to 2,500 in both Afghanistan and Iraq, where there are currently about 3,000 US troops.

Comprehensive, not quite, reduction yes. Pointless having troops on location in foreign lands when you need them back on Capitol Hill.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-54060026

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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That just sounds like anti-Trump spin

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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The troop level in Afghanistan is down to 2,000 and they are due to be withdrawn in the near future unless Biden changes the plan which of course he will.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55666152

I would also point out that it is illegal to use the US army on the streets even at the Capitol building, so they are not needed there.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 5 days ago

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"We all on this site have to realise that over 74 million Americans voted trump? Weather we in this country agree of the way he ran the USA it was up to the voters to elect not us. Let's hope next Wednesday it goes smoothly for the incoming president as the whole world will be watching? But as said 74 million people liked him."

Yes, it was up to the Americans to vote for their president, and they voted Trump OUT. The fact that 74 million voted for him almost becomes redundant as soon as the election is over, in much the same way that the millions who voted Remain in the Brexit referendum were told to shut up as soon as the result was announced. Sadly in cases like this, the 'losers' are no longer considered to have a voice. At least with elections they will have another chance in four years' time.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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Lowest unemployment since the 1960’s, 4%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/665159.stm

March 2020, before the impact of Covid.

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Lowest unemployment since the 1960’s, 4%

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/665159.stm

March 2020, before the impact of Covid."

Ummmmmmmmmm.... you do realise that the article you posted the link for was from 2000 ???

The Labour secretary mentioned in the article is Alexis Hermann,who left office in 2001 !!

The current Labour Secretary (the overseer of jobs and their status) is Eugene Scalia.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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Try this link instead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172wmwsp82jb0j

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"I would also point out that it is illegal to use the US army on the streets even at the Capitol building, so they are not needed there."

Ooops number 2

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trump-use-insurrection-act-deploy-troops-american-streets

Miltary Troops have already been deployed, June 2020.

and can be used again under the Insurrection act based on exceptions. (sic!).

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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Perhaps you prefer American sources?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/us-jobs-report-february-2020.html

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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"I would also point out that it is illegal to use the US army on the streets even at the Capitol building, so they are not needed there.

Ooops number 2

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trump-use-insurrection-act-deploy-troops-american-streets

Miltary Troops have already been deployed, June 2020.

and can be used again under the Insurrection act based on exceptions. (sic!)."

I see you don’t understand the difference between the US Army and the National Guard.

What number ooops is that for you?

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Try this link instead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172wmwsp82jb0j"

Back at ya!

Stats, stats and lies....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48145563

Continue to listen your audio link, the pay increases were a mere 6 cents in one month, rising from 4 cents the previous month. Add to that the 'hours worked' by people declined. So more people were hired, for less actual hours.

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"I see you don’t understand the difference between the US Army and the National Guard.

What number ooops is that for you?"

From the National Guard website:

"The National Guard is a unique element of the U.S. military that serves both community and country. The Guard responds to domestic emergencies, overseas combat missions, counterdrug efforts, reconstruction missions and more. Any state governor or the President of the United States can call on the Guard in a moment’s notice. Guard Soldiers hold civilian jobs or attend college while maintaining their military training part time. Guard Soldiers’ primary area of operation is their home state."

We can go at this all day !!!

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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"I see you don’t understand the difference between the US Army and the National Guard.

What number ooops is that for you?

From the National Guard website:

"The National Guard is a unique element of the U.S. military that serves both community and country. The Guard responds to domestic emergencies, overseas combat missions, counterdrug efforts, reconstruction missions and more. Any state governor or the President of the United States can call on the Guard in a moment’s notice. Guard Soldiers hold civilian jobs or attend college while maintaining their military training part time. Guard Soldiers’ primary area of operation is their home state."

We can go at this all day !!!

"

It is not the US Army which cannot be deployed within the USA because that is the job of the National Guard, therefore the troops coming back from Afghanistan cannot be deployed to guard the Capitol building. Is that simple enough for you?

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Is that simple enough for you?"

.... just about as simply as this is for you (Tee Hee),(the thing missing from this discussion is a Pint and your buying!!!!

Can Trump use the Insurrection Act to deploy the military?

A law known as the 1807 Insurrection Act allows federal troops to be deployed to suppress lawlessness, insurrection and rebellion.

Invoking that act could allow Mr Trump to call out not only the National Guard but also the REGULAR military — in most likelihood military police — and send them wherever he wanted. Mr Trump might be able to impose troops even if local and state authorities objected, citing protection of citizens’ rights.

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"There was no need to invoke the Insurrection Act because states were already deploying the National Guard, he noted. “The president is trying to portray himself as being more in charge than he actually is.”

The American Civil Liberties Union warned that deploying more federal troops would be “irresponsible and dangerous”.

When was the US military deployed for domestic disturbances?

The Insurrection Act was last invoked in 1992 during the race riots in Los Angeles, after police officers were acquitted of beating Rodney King.

It was also used several times to defend civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, including to enforce desegregation orders. It was also invoked to quell the 1968 race riots in the wake of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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Using the Insurrection Act would be a sharp escalation of the situation and there are very specific circumstances that govern its use, to protect States rights from Federal overreach.

I’m more surprised that you are not concerned with the current situation. The US Army is under Federal authority and for use to protect the country from outside forces. The National Guard is under State authority, the Governor, to assist with internal problems.

The exception to this is Washington DC, which is not a State, so the National Guard there is under the direct authority of the President. That means the 20,000 armed troops that are occupying the Capitol building are under the control of Trump himself. Worried yet?

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By *eyley  (M) 5 days ago

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"Using the Insurrection Act would be a sharp escalation of the situation "

... you mean as opposed to Fascist wearing Auschwitz T-shirts running amok in the 'House' as well as Trump-pets having naplam left in a van 2 blocks away?

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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"Using the Insurrection Act would be a sharp escalation of the situation

... you mean as opposed to Fascist wearing Auschwitz T-shirts running amok in the 'House' as well as Trump-pets having naplam left in a van 2 blocks away?"

Nice quote from AOC, what is an Auschwitz t shirt? How do I recognise one?

Perhaps if you know who left the explosives you should inform the FBI as they don’t seem to have any idea yet.

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By *deviantx-   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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"Using the Insurrection Act would be a sharp escalation of the situation and there are very specific circumstances that govern its use, to protect States rights from Federal overreach.

I’m more surprised that you are not concerned with the current situation. The US Army is under Federal authority and for use to protect the country from outside forces. The National Guard is under State authority, the Governor, to assist with internal problems.

The exception to this is Washington DC, which is not a State, so the National Guard there is under the direct authority of the President. That means the 20,000 armed troops that are occupying the Capitol building are under the control of Trump himself. Worried yet?"

With any luck the great orange numpty's too dumb to know that so unless any of his advisors have told him (did any of the rats remain on the sinking ship?) it'd be a case of crossed fingers and shhhhh...

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*aul69Mids By *aul69Mids  (TV/TS/CD) 5 days ago

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This is what happens when you let the Russians choose your leaders. Putin must be laughing his socks off.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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Right I will add this to the correct thread [I hope] after my earlier mistake.

I am not defending Trump as I am hardly a fan. Had I had the misfortune of being born an American I admit I would have voted for him twice simply because the alternative choices were so awful.

Firstly Washington DC is currently awash with military personal. To me they look like federal troops rather than National Guard but I am not sure of the uniforms these days. They are there to try and safe-guard the inaugural celebrations next week which is understandable with the current volatile situation..

Secondly I watched a TV programme, late the other night, about the appalling events in the Capitol on Jan 6th. Did not see any Auschwitz or pro fascist T-shirts. Quite a few with pro Trump slogans which I suppose the hard lefters might consider to be pro fascists.

Also some on here have questioned Trump's intelligence. Well he is undeniably a very clever and astute man. He may lie, as most politicians do, and he may have delusions of his own importance but that is yet another trait that seems to go with a politicians territory. But there is no way did he become a multi-billionaire or get the top job in the most powerful nation in the western world without being pretty smart. He did not inherit either of these but got there through ingenuity, wit and cunning.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 5 days ago

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For someone who is not a fan and not defending him, that is quite a glowing reference for the orange twat.

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By *deviantx-   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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"He did not inherit either of these but got there through ingenuity, wit and cunning. "

So all that pocket change and the ruthless bullying had nothing to do with it, then. Okey dokey.

Admittedly the alternative four years ago would have been an equal disaster, just in a different way. Who the hell would have wanted Hilary at the helm with potentially certain access codes to hand? Frightening stuff.

As for 'Sleepy Joe', the guy might not have the charisma of his predecessors but we'll wait and see how much of a (hopefully positive) action man he turns out to be - because that's what he'll need to be to sort out the mess left behind! And not just for Americans, either.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"For someone who is not a fan and not defending him, that is quite a glowing reference for the orange twat."

Well you would have to say that just to be clever, though you've negated your petty argument with your childish vulgarity.

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 5 days ago

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Not really. He is orange and he is a twat, so orange twat is appropriate.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"He did not inherit either of these but got there through ingenuity, wit and cunning.

So all that pocket change and the ruthless bullying had nothing to do with it, then. Okey dokey.

Admittedly the alternative four years ago would have been an equal disaster, just in a different way. Who the hell would have wanted Hilary at the helm with potentially certain access codes to hand? Frightening stuff.

As for 'Sleepy Joe', the guy might not have the charisma of his predecessors but we'll wait and see how much of a (hopefully positive) action man he turns out to be - because that's what he'll need to be to sort out the mess left behind! And not just for Americans, either."

Ingenuity, wit and cunning often go hand in hand with ruthless bullying. Like I say I'm not defending him but stating facts.

Hilary would probably have been a greater disaster than him. She seemed hell bent on confrontation with Russia amongst others and had no real economic strategy at home. An erratic unstable woman. Horrible choice but he was marginally better.

Creepy, sleepy Joe may have made an adequate to good president once but can't help but feel he is a bit past it now. Looks tired and old and makes some terrible mistakes when speaking. Just hope his brain is better than his mouth. I have very serious doubts about his incoming administration team. Not optimistic.

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*oredEric By *oredEric   profile verified by photo (M) 5 days ago

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Trump did not get anywhere through ingenuity and wit. He was handed a fortune, he blew it. He lied his way to get loans and such, he blew his way through those, he’s been declared bankrupt six times, probably heading for seven when his loans come due.

He’s that example of owe the bank £500 you have sleepless nights, owe the bank £500,000,000 they have sleepless nights. How he’s survived is a mystery, but money laundering is good business. When the dust settles, when his appeals run out, his records are examined in forensic detail then the picture of this “stable genius” will emerge. It’s going to be a cross between Al Capone and Imelda Marcos.

He has no politics other than slash and burn, protect his own interests above all else. He’s psychologically unstable. At this moment in time the biggest threat to America is it’s President!

Six bankruptcies, three marriages, twice impeached, that takes real effort, not the achievements of a man of wit, ingenuity, and skill. More the blundering fuckwittery of a total arse.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 5 days ago

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"Not really. He is orange and he is a twat, so orange twat is appropriate."

Always the same. You don't like someone so you resort to petty name calling. That is why no one could ever have a sensible debate with you.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 5 days ago

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His supporters would say that he is an orange dick but he’s our orange dick.

They are quite aware of his shortcomings in the personality department, after all he was a huge tv star for many years before he went into politics but they still prefer him to the plastic cookie cutter politicians.

As for the orange bit check out his photos in different publications, the left wing ones over saturate the colour so he looks orange, this is most obvious when a different outlet uses the same picture without the over saturation.

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By *deviantx-   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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"Hilary would probably have been a greater disaster than him. She seemed hell bent on confrontation with Russia amongst others..."

Exactly - but then don't they all? I'd tend to think she'd have started with North Korea (simply because Kim would have been in the wrong 'place' at the wrong time with all the missile testing and accompanying threats to Guam and mainland USA. But with NK inevitably she'd have then had to deal with China where it all might have very seriously ended.


"Creepy, sleepy Joe may have made an adequate to good president once..."

Yes and maybe he's where he is now by simply riding on the back of Obamas' ticket. If that's the case then at least he has Congress behind him, which Obama certainly didn't! So we'll see if he puts to good use the tool that Obama had no chance of ever using.

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By *deviantx-   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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"He has no politics other than slash and burn..."

Just so long as that doesn't include Scorched Earth I think we'll all be happy bunnies when he's gone...or perhaps he already initiated that process last week...

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*astkenter By *astkenter  (M) 4 days ago

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'Six bankruptcies, three marriages, twice impeached, that takes real effort, not the achievements of a man of wit, ingenuity, and skill. More the blundering fuckwittery of a total arse.'

True, but some people still believe it is possible to gild a turd.

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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"..... what is an Auschwitz t shirt? How do I recognise one?

Perhaps if you know who left the explosives you should inform the FBI as they don’t seem to have any idea yet.

"

Sorry for the lazy response, but if you simply had Google'd Auschwitz T-shirt and Capitol Hill, you would have found numerous references:

https://www.dw.com/en/online-retailer-removes-camp-auschwitz-t-shirt-after-capitol-riots/a-56197247

(Then click on images)

Then simply search 'nalpalm' at Capitol Hill...

"A man arrested near the Capitol Building during the pro-Trump riot had “homemade napalm” in his truck, police said. Lonnie Coffman is accused of having 11 Molotov cocktails containing gasoline and the napalm as the mayhem unfolded, according to federal prosecutors.8 Jan 2021"

I don't need to notify the FBI, they have done their work already.

Finally

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-orange-glow-is-visibly-missing-walter-reed-hospital-video-2020-10?r=US&IR=T

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By *ollydee   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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I don't know about the explosives but I did see the T-Shirt with Austwich on it and the swastika.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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"Trump did not get anywhere through ingenuity and wit. He was handed a fortune, he blew it. He lied his way to get loans and such, he blew his way through those, he’s been declared bankrupt six times, probably heading for seven when his loans come due.

He’s that example of owe the bank £500 you have sleepless nights, owe the bank £500,000,000 they have sleepless nights. How he’s survived is a mystery, but money laundering is good business. When the dust settles, when his appeals run out, his records are examined in forensic detail then the picture of this “stable genius” will emerge. It’s going to be a cross between Al Capone and Imelda Marcos.

He has no politics other than slash and burn, protect his own interests above all else. He’s psychologically unstable. At this moment in time the biggest threat to America is it’s President!

Six bankruptcies, three marriages, twice impeached, that takes real effort, not the achievements of a man of wit, ingenuity, and skill. More the blundering fuckwittery of a total arse."

For some strange reason I get the impression you don't like Trump Borederic. Can't say that I like him as a person at all but disagree with you about his achievements.

If you are a total dullard you don't bounce back, become a multi-billionaire or achieve the highest office in the land. Your journey there may not be a hundred percent legit but it obviously takes brains.

His main policy/slogan/mantra was 'Make America Great Again'. It will be debated from now until doomsday weather he got anywhere near achieving this. Perhaps with a 2nd term and no pandemic he might have achieved more. His economic policies seemed to be working.

I knew he had been bankrupt but did not realise it was six times. To bounce back and now be worth over $3bn is still quite an achievement. Perhaps this is where you and I have gone wrong.

Three marriages? Don't really think this is the site to get moral about peoples personal life and infidelity. Our own PM is about to embark on his 3rd marriage and the former leader of our opposition has been married 3 times. I think Biden is on his 2nd marriage and both Nixon and Reagan where on there 2nd marriages. And as for Bill Clinton, well what can one say.

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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".... his economic policies seemed to be working.

"

You keep saying that but you have provided no evidence to support that. Whereas I have provided a couple of examples to the contrary which for some reason you haven't challenged.

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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".... his economic policies seemed to be working.

You keep saying that but you have provided no evidence to support that. Whereas I have provided a couple of examples to the contrary which for some reason you haven't challenged. "

You've provided a couple of biased examples. There are a lot of conflicting views about his economic achievements. A lot are politically biased from both sides of the divide. Not being an American or a top economist perhaps I should not comment but doubt anyone on here knows the absolute truth

I am getting my info from my son who has lived and worked in the USA for the last 12 or 13 years and from his father-in-law who is CEO of an American company and only recently become a Trump supporter.

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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"You've provided a couple of biased examples."

What was the bias?


"Not being an American or a top economist perhaps I should not comment.. "

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


"I am getting my info from my son who has lived and worked in the USA for the last 12 or 13 years and from his father-in-law who is CEO of an American company and only recently become a Trump supporter."

My family live in Georgia...mostly retired. Backgrounds in Wall Street, American Express, Medical profession which has allowed them to reside now in Buck Head and the 'Country Club of the South' (Google if you need). That all counts for nothing except to respond to your answer about how you've come to a conclusion that Trump was an economic success.

My views are objective, I've provided small nuggetts/evidence of facts. They are not disputable although I do accept and understand that it's up for interpretation.

For example, people got a tax cut at source, I DON'T dispute that banner headline from the GOP. But I also accept that Tax rebates/refunds/claimed at the end of the year from the IRS for individuals were down just over 11% in 2019.

Yes I dispute Trumps claim that a million jobs were created purely by him in the first month of office...When in fact some of the jobs recorded in the first month were being 'brewed' during Obamas last month.

(Another time period)Michael A. French, points to 2.5 million jobs that were created in May and 4.8 million jobs created in June !!!!!

One person assertion on behalf of Trump...

Let's instead go to a genuine source:

In March, the United States lost 1.4 million jobs and a record 20.8 million more in April, according to Department of Labor statistics.... (where is the basis of bias in a department in which the Head would have been appointed by Trump).

I quote stats and source at you, you quote family members back at me. Let's hope we don't sink to comparing penis size to prove a political point (because we all know who will win there)

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*ordic-knight By *ordic-knight   premium paying member (M) 4 days ago

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Well Seyley I think we are going to have to respectfully agree to disagree. I do accept that quite a few of Trump's outrageous claims were a bit far-fetched to say the least. Statistics can be manipulated to suit ones viewpoint.

As for penis size I have always said that more than a mouthful is a waste so you can put you 18 inch pecker back in your jeans

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By *deviantx-   profile verified by photo (M) 4 days ago

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"...you can put you 18 inch pecker back in your jeans "

Considering the OP, there ought to be a joke about snake charming somewhere about now.

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 4 days ago

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".... his economic policies seemed to be working.

You keep saying that but you have provided no evidence to support that. Whereas I have provided a couple of examples to the contrary which for some reason you haven't challenged. "

I know you prefer left wing sources so how about “the best numbers of our lives”

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/06/cramer-like-or-hate-trump-these-are-the-best-numbers-of-our-lives-on-jobs.html

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*Ybear By *Ybear  (M) 4 days ago

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"..... what is an Auschwitz t shirt? How do I recognise one?

Perhaps if you know who left the explosives you should inform the FBI as they don’t seem to have any idea yet.

Sorry for the lazy response, but if you simply had Google'd Auschwitz T-shirt and Capitol Hill, you would have found numerous references:

https://www.dw.com/en/online-retailer-removes-camp-auschwitz-t-shirt-after-capitol-riots/a-56197247

(Then click on images)

Then simply search 'nalpalm' at Capitol Hill...

"A man arrested near the Capitol Building during the pro-Trump riot had “homemade napalm” in his truck, police said. Lonnie Coffman is accused of having 11 Molotov cocktails containing gasoline and the napalm as the mayhem unfolded, according to federal prosecutors.8 Jan 2021"

I don't need to notify the FBI, they have done their work already.

Finally

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-orange-glow-is-visibly-missing-walter-reed-hospital-video-2020-10?r=US&IR=T"

One idiot in a home made t shirt doesn’t deserve the plural, it’s just an attempt to portray the whole crowd as Nazis to suit a political narrative.

Your “napalm“ turns out to be 11 Molotov cocktails, petrol bombs, similar to the thousands thrown at the Federal courthouse in Portland over more than a hundred nights of rioting.

I thought you were referring to the real explosives found, that is still being investigated and if you can help with that you can earn yourself some money. You might like to note that the targets were the RNC and the DNC, clearly someone who hates both sides.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-posts-photo-person-suspected-pipe-bombs-dnc/story?id=75126041

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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" I know you prefer left wing sources .."

Groan, AGAIN with the conspiracy theories.

The Bureau of Labor statistics is NOT a left wing source...

The Insurrection Act of 1807 referred too in order to correct you on the use of Federal Troops on home turf is NOT a left wing source.

Rather than making baseless accusations, quote me firm facts or don't bother as you are making this arguement/discussion far too easy for me.

I don't expect you to read every detail of my responses on this thread, but if you are accusing me of only going to left wing sources when I wrote the following:


"For example, people got a tax cut at source, I DON'T dispute that banner headline from the GOP."

...I find your accusation quite bizarre.

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

@private mail, +add as contact


"One idiot in a home made t shirt doesn’t deserve the plural, it’s just an attempt to portray the whole crowd as Nazis to suit a political narrative."

One idiot? Really?

Glad you felt that the rest of the insurrectionist were simple preppie spoilt brats who ate too many red smarties. Therefore I assume by Trump telling them to go home peacefully after 5 people were killed had in fact sold them out, threw them under the bus...

Oh just for your information

The following was observed:

"Photos and video of the rioters show some with attire bearing the words “work brings freedom” – a translation of the Nazis’ infamous “arbeit macht frei” written above the entrance to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Others (that means more than one to me at least) were seen with a ‘Camp Auschwitz’ T-shirt”.


"Your “napalm“ turns out to be 11 Molotov cocktails, petrol bombs, similar to the thousands thrown at the Federal courthouse in Portland"


"...portray the whole crowd as Nazis "

Your weakest argument in this whole thread. if you are stupidly under the impression that these were centre-right individuals out for a picnic. Then I have the confirmation I needed about your politics. The groups that attended were Nazis, extreme right wing (off-grid militia), Q Anon CTs,Covid -19 deniers and anti-vaxxers who's collective belief that the election was stolen and that it happened in so-called 'Black' states of Detroit, Georgia and Pennsylvania because let's face it, Black people were born criminal and they singularly want to bring down beautiful America, not that Black people with their scientifically proven lower IQ are capable of doing it, but with the help of the Left and China then it is possible.

I get the impression your fully signed up to the narrative above.

oh, and....

It wasn't my 'Napalm' it was Lonnie Coffman's Napalm.

After his Molotov cocktails were seized and forensically examined some, not all were found to have the following:

...an incendiary mixture of a gelling agent and a volatile petrochemical. The title is a blend of the names of two of the constituents of the original thickening and gelling agents: co-precipitated aluminium salts of naphthenic acid and palmitic acid; ergo a Napalm device. Pointless prosecuting someone for possession of a napalm munition if in fact the Defence Legal Team can easily show it wasn't. Doh!

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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For my amusement I went to an extreme left wing source to find this link to cover my last two response above:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9129945/The-far-right-symbols-groups-Capitol-Hill-riots.html

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By *eyley  (M) 4 days ago

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i4rgxOi73c

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XXX pic...
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By *atinesque  (M) 2 days ago

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https://barenakedislam.com/2021/01/18/how-did-president-trump-make-america-great-again/?fbclid=IwAR1spmzjldnHwZNDxskH5S0RIYtTxc6dsIfs9Bi2JnB4klpPbS4z-5YufCk

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